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What can Auto Pilot do for you??.... An AP revamp thread
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#61 - 2011-12-04 04:42:20 UTC
Nestara Aldent wrote:
No real solution for you who want to ruin the game is simply to unsub. This is game is pvp game and making pvp flagging system or nerfing ganking and world pvp will ruin the game for every one of us who knew what this game is before subscribing! Instead of crying so loud CCP to make this game into another WoW clone, why you just don't go to WoW or STO or SWTOR?


All I heard was "blah blah blah I want pew pew where i'm the only one shooting"
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#62 - 2011-12-04 04:51:32 UTC
Joe, pewpew is what the game is about. If you don't want pewpew, why you're in the game?

Yes that implies that your ship can be blown up, because it's made to be blown up and your character to survive.
Vizvayu Koga
#63 - 2011-12-04 05:07:59 UTC
Nestara Aldent wrote:
No real solution for you who want to ruin the game is simply to unsub. This is game is pvp game and making pvp flagging system or nerfing ganking and world pvp will ruin the game for every one of us who knew what this game is before subscribing! Instead of crying so loud CCP to make this game into another WoW clone, why you just don't go to WoW or STO or SWTOR?


Plenty of PvP in null and also with faction warfare...
EVE is larger that you think, there is trading, exploring, ratting, manufacturing, and many other things and ways to play that don't involve PvP.
Goose99
#64 - 2011-12-04 05:19:25 UTC
Vizvayu Koga wrote:
Nestara Aldent wrote:
No real solution for you who want to ruin the game is simply to unsub. This is game is pvp game and making pvp flagging system or nerfing ganking and world pvp will ruin the game for every one of us who knew what this game is before subscribing! Instead of crying so loud CCP to make this game into another WoW clone, why you just don't go to WoW or STO or SWTOR?


Plenty of PvP in null and also with faction warfare...
EVE is larger that you think, there is trading, exploring, ratting, manufacturing, and many other things and ways to play that don't involve PvP.


^This

FPS twitch shooters are pvp games. Eve is overwhelmingly pve activity, if you check the numbers. From dec 2007 to today, 6.3 mil player boats popped in highsec to mission rats, this compared to 7 mil players popped to blobs in null. Oh, that figure includes the 3.4 mil pods popped, btw, which, it's safe to assume, is from pvp (pod in a bubble, lulz), since rats don't pop pods.Roll
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#65 - 2011-12-04 05:21:25 UTC
Nestara Aldent wrote:
Joe, pewpew is what the game is about.


Yes, but AP shouldn't be balanced around those guys that are looking for pew pew where they're likely not to be shot back at.

If you expect me to want to balance the game around people who want to shoot but not be shot back at, then you're very confused.

Again, it's high sec...

Any ganking that goes on in high sec must work around the restriction of high sec.

Allowing AP to warp to zero is a very small change that will do nothing to said gankers but tell them to catch people coming into the system and not people leaving the system.

If high sec gankers are happy with the way high sec ganking is effected by this, then they can simply go gank in low/null/wh space where they may require some actual skill to be able to gank.
Bearilian
Man Eating Bears
#66 - 2011-12-04 06:16:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Bearilian
Nestara Aldent wrote:
No real solution for you who want to ruin the game is simply to unsub. This is game is pvp game and making pvp flagging system or nerfing ganking and world pvp will ruin the game for every one of us who knew what this game is before subscribing! Instead of crying so loud CCP to make this game into another WoW clone, why you just don't go to WoW or STO or SWTOR?


the best part of your post is all its sounds like is a form of crying, and whining for what you want (exactly what you were attempting to blame us for doing). there isnt a single use of actual arguement in what you said. are you so attached to the AP system that the intire game would be ruined if AP was reuced to 0? seriously, this thread has had some real good arguments (on both sides), so please do not just argue at nothing, and actually try to prove us wrong.

And we appologies if this change would effect pvp ganking, but it seriously has so little to do with why we want the change. I'm surprised someone with over a 100 mil of stuff would ever use AP, so I'm sorry you dont get to gank those noobs as easily, but the change would be so much more beneficial to the travel system.

(And Holy ****!!! im tired of people trying to quote WoW. this game is nothing like that and most of the suggestions i see posted around the forums are not anything but ideas and improvements within eve's mechanics. if changing the AP to warp to 0 makes the game more like WoW then you know more about WoW then i do because I dont see the comparison.
This game will allways be far superior..)

sry for posting over the responses, but i really wanted to address this one individually.
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#67 - 2011-12-04 08:13:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Nestara Aldent
No you're all wrong. This game is pvp game with world pvp and ganking. It's a niche game, while you want to make CCP change in into mainstream pve grinder, where it will simply be overshadowed by competition.

Niche and not mainstream game.

It's like asking craftsman that handcrafts unique and valuable items, which gives him comfortable living but not a fortune, to start competing with mass produced goods. Just you have to realize it.

MMOCrunch has declared Eve to be top pvp mmo of 2011. But without that pvp you hate so much, I doubt Eve would have made it into top five, unnoticed.
Bearilian
Man Eating Bears
#68 - 2011-12-04 09:27:16 UTC
Nestara Aldent wrote:
No you're all wrong. This game is pvp game with world pvp and ganking. It's a niche game, while you want to make CCP change in into mainstream pve grinder, where it will simply be overshadowed by competition.

Niche and not mainstream game.

It's like asking craftsman that handcrafts unique and valuable items, which gives him comfortable living but not a fortune, to start competing with mass produced goods. Just you have to realize it.

MMOCrunch has declared Eve to be top pvp mmo of 2011. But without that pvp you hate so much, I doubt Eve would have made it into top five, unnoticed.


your still completely missing the point...

first we are not arguing against pvp at all.
second, this thread is addressing a single issue involving the auto pilot.
-if auto pilot was decreased to warp to 0, it has been established that the affect on pvp isn't as much the issue than is penalizing people who would go afk.
-on this we have offered many suggestions to ballance the mechanics out. (including time delays before jump and after jump)

your argument against pve players does not belong in this thread. nor are we saying we are not pvp'ers (i personally love both!! depending on the mood i am in, eve offers everything!!!)

i have a question for you; if AP was reduced to 0 from gates, would you be incapable of ganking transports hauling goods in high sec? (minorly inconvenienced i'm sure, because you'd have to react quicker, but the benefit of speeding travel up over all out weighs your complaint against having to be more skilled at ganking (since thats one of the smaller side affects of the proposed change)

you can say we're all wrong all you want, but your placing a minority vote here. the reason as i understand it for having AP go to 15km has nothing to do with making the ships gank targets, but to penalize botting, and afk'ers (If I'm wrong i sincerly apologize, just what i have been hearing). And all i am saying about it is that 15km is a bit to much of a penalty, which makes AP almost useless, except on small ships when you have no deadline to arrive at destination.
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#69 - 2011-12-04 10:28:59 UTC
I would like to see CCP trying this for a week and see what the outcome is.

Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,  but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2011-12-04 13:17:03 UTC

Gankers sit at gates where the pilot warps to and then slowly autopilots to the gate.

AP to zero would kill off a whole profession.

And no, i'm not using travel macros either.
Who the hell do you think you are ? O_o
An idiot !
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#71 - 2011-12-04 18:55:24 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:

Gankers sit at gates where the pilot warps to and then slowly autopilots to the gate.

AP to zero would kill off a whole profession.

And no, i'm not using travel macros either.
Who the hell do you think you are ? O_o
An idiot !



I have an awesome suggestion for those players that sit at the gate waiting for an AP pilot to come in that would be effected by AP warping to zero.

GO TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE GATE!!!!!

Seriously........

That's all it takes to gank those very same people

All you gotta do is lock them before they warp out.

And with the suicide gank ships that are normally used, that shouldn't be too much of a problem.




Secondly, again it's high sec.

I don't know how the hell people actually have enough time to pull off suicide ganks at gates anyway.

I mean seriously...Concord is right there!!!!

Why are they not shooting?!?!?!!?

However though, I don't throw a fit about this even though it doesn't make sense because I put of with the crap I have to in order to play Eve.

AP to zero just means I have to put up with less waiting to play and gate campers have to go to the other side of the gate.

Don't know why ya'll think AP warping to zero means ships are ungankable..
Bearilian
Man Eating Bears
#72 - 2011-12-04 20:17:54 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:

Gankers sit at gates where the pilot warps to and then slowly autopilots to the gate.

AP to zero would kill off a whole profession.


You are actually helping my point here. If noob high sec gankers cannot accomplish what they have been with out the 15km AP bonus, then they need to find a new profession regaurdless. or learn how to actually use skill to gank their targets. your just upset because Joe is right wth the fact that you'd have to learn how to jump to the next system and gank him there before he warps off (If they are flying a bs or bigger then you should not be complaining)
el alasar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2011-12-04 21:46:34 UTC
the autopilot is as it is for ages, so are the suicide gankers burning their sensor boosters. on those topics you get heavy support from either side (ganker-pirat vs. industrialist-carebear). thus i assume CCP feels it is "balanced" this way and ignores the flames, sadly i tend to agree.

as CCP just touched the AP topic (warp+jump button, not changing balancing!), this was the time to implement WTZ, too, but CCP did not. they did not change the current balancing. thus i do not think we will see general AP WTZ any time soon.

if feel we need to assume that any change to AP to make it less time-consuming needs to keep the balance, otherwise CCP would not implement it and there will not be unanimous support for it from the eve community. is there a solution? probably, one suggestion was post #45. argue over the numbers, involved skills. they could be defined to effectively give you WTZ with AP. but CCP will decide anyways in its own ways. (i could imagine getting WTZ with perfect skills and my carebear side would like it.)

check the moderated 10000 papercuts evelopedia page! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts comment, bump(!) and like what you like
el alasar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2011-12-04 21:49:56 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
I have an awesome suggestion for those players that sit at the gate waiting for an AP pilot to come in that would be effected by AP warping to zero.
GO TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE GATE!!!!!

this will kill 30-50% of ganking - shooting is only part of the job. ganking would also not work in any case anymore. e.g. a frig is quite hard to gank during alignment. afk-approach is needed for scanning. while not impossible - try to scan a frig having below 2 sec align time...

check the moderated 10000 papercuts evelopedia page! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts comment, bump(!) and like what you like
el alasar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2011-12-04 21:50:20 UTC  |  Edited by: el alasar
Joe Risalo wrote:
I don't know how the hell people actually have enough time to pull off suicide ganks at gates anyway.
I mean seriously...Concord is right there!!!!
Why are they not shooting?!?!?!!?

ganking industrial ships is often done with BS, they do take some hits from concord... but maybe the problem is not concord response time???

usual ganker/pvp'er argument: if less ships got blown up, whom to sell any stuff to? well, either people carry on with doing lots of mining/industry/pve to afford some pve, or - if pvp ship loss rate wasnt as high - they could spend a lower percentage of their time in mining/industry/pve to do more pvp. this would mean more engagements, more adrenaline. how? increase the chance to survive engagements, e.g. by
- overall increase of HP for all ships. favor hull HP, making them harder to utilize for logistics. new tactics, more variety.
- make warp scrambling chance-based like ECM. (favors web+bounce tactics)
- introduce first/new counter(s) to high alpha (e.g. new logistics: remote resistances or Chaff (reducing signature radius))
- factor victim's and attacker's sec status in to concord response times. make high standings give you an advantage!
this would change balancing, making ganking harder - it needs more players or more expensive fitting to accomplish the job. and adds unforeseeable variables to the ganking game!

i find it ridiculous how easy it is to gank a 170k EHP freighter in highsec. do the math what you are "allowed" to fit on a pve-BS not to be eligible for ganking. laughable.

@Joe, if you think Solstice Project is just trying to keep ganking easy, read his thread...
@Bearilian thx for the compliment

check the moderated 10000 papercuts evelopedia page! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts comment, bump(!) and like what you like
el alasar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2011-12-04 21:51:05 UTC
sorry for the many single posts. forums keeps telling me there are errors in BB-code. when posting same code in several posts all is good....

check the moderated 10000 papercuts evelopedia page! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts comment, bump(!) and like what you like
Esunisen
Les Tueurs de Killer
#77 - 2011-12-04 21:55:35 UTC
Nestara Aldent wrote:
Joe, pewpew is what the game is about. If you don't want pewpew, why you're in the game?

Yes that implies that your ship can be blown up, because it's made to be blown up and your character to survive.



If you play EVE only for pewpew, you are missing 95% of the game.
Goose99
#78 - 2011-12-04 22:23:30 UTC
Esunisen wrote:
Nestara Aldent wrote:
Joe, pewpew is what the game is about. If you don't want pewpew, why you're in the game?

Yes that implies that your ship can be blown up, because it's made to be blown up and your character to survive.



If you play EVE only for pewpew, you are missing 95% of the game.


^this

Goose99 wrote:

FPS twitch shooters are pvp games. Eve is overwhelmingly pve activity, if you check the numbers. From dec 2007 to today, 6.3 mil player boats popped in highsec to mission rats, this compared to 7 mil players popped to blobs in null. Oh, that figure includes the 3.4 mil pods popped, btw, which, it's safe to assume, is from pvp (pod in a bubble, lulz), since rats don't pop pods.Roll
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#79 - 2011-12-05 00:53:46 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:

Gankers sit at gates where the pilot warps to and then slowly autopilots to the gate.

AP to zero would kill off a whole profession.

And no, i'm not using travel macros either.
Who the hell do you think you are ? O_o
An idiot !



I have an awesome suggestion for those players that sit at the gate waiting for an AP pilot to come in that would be effected by AP warping to zero.

GO TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE GATE!!!!!

Seriously........

That's all it takes to gank those very same people

All you gotta do is lock them before they warp out.

And with the suicide gank ships that are normally used, that shouldn't be too much of a problem.




Secondly, again it's high sec.

I don't know how the hell people actually have enough time to pull off suicide ganks at gates anyway.

I mean seriously...Concord is right there!!!!

Why are they not shooting?!?!?!!?

However though, I don't throw a fit about this even though it doesn't make sense because I put of with the crap I have to in order to play Eve.

AP to zero just means I have to put up with less waiting to play and gate campers have to go to the other side of the gate.

Don't know why ya'll think AP warping to zero means ships are ungankable..


Please remove your god forsaken enter key.

TIA
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#80 - 2011-12-05 00:56:35 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Nestara Aldent wrote:
Joe, pewpew is what the game is about.


Yes, but AP shouldn't be balanced around those guys that are looking for pew pew where they're likely not to be shot back at.



Its unlikely the pods/hulks I kill in high sec for fun are going to shoot back at me either. The game is about pvp, regardless of whether or not your opponent consents or even has the ability to consent.

If you don't like it, there are plenty of other MMO's that have pvp flags.