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T2 assault frigate Vs. Destroyer

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tele-guy Toralen
Diamond Dogs.
Mercenaires Sans Frontieres.
#1 - 2014-05-13 23:40:43 UTC
Which is better a t2 assault frigate or a destroyer? Just wondering what I should skill in to so I might be able to survive low sec and null when I join a corporation
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#2 - 2014-05-14 00:09:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabriz Adoudel
They do different things.

Destroyers rip frigates and non-combat ships apart, and die if sneezed at.

AFs are more durable in general, and work better as tackle (i.e. you are the first to engage hostiles, and your job is to stop them fleeing until heavy firepower arrives) but they can also fight solo. Their small size and fast movement makes them hard to hit.

AFs are more generally useful, but there are certainly things (suicide ganking in highsec, killing soft targets in lowsec, anti-frigate work in any space) where destroyers utterly shine.

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tele-guy Toralen
Diamond Dogs.
Mercenaires Sans Frontieres.
#3 - 2014-05-14 00:26:22 UTC
Ok thanks for the help
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-05-14 01:39:29 UTC
tele-guy Toralen wrote:
Just wondering what I should skill in to so I might be able to survive low sec and null when I join a corporation



There's really no need to jump into anything bigger or more expensive than a T1 frigate until you have some experience under your belt.

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Solai
Doughfleet
Triglavian Outlaws and Sobornost Troika
#5 - 2014-05-14 04:03:36 UTC
Training frigate 5 will help you get into assault frigate, but more importantly it also gets you into Interceptors. Interceptors are well worth the time to train, due to their utility as solo transportation, and their demand in just about any fleet.

For new guys, I don't suggest training lvl 5 skills, if it can be avoided, but frigate 5 and Evasive Maneuvering 5 for interceptors is one exception. Along the way it allows you to pick up Assault Frigate, which is a side bonus.
Bael Malefic
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-05-14 09:50:10 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:


Destroyers rip frigates and non-combat ships apart, and die if sneezed at.

AFs are more durable in general, and work better as tackle (i.e. you are the first to engage hostiles, and your job is to stop them fleeing until heavy firepower arrives) but they can also fight solo. Their small size and fast movement makes them hard to hit.



This is spot on. I really like flying destroyers on nullsec roams, in a gang they can apply a lot of DPS but they are fragile.

Assault frigs, as T2 ships, tend to get targeted before T1 destroyers in my experience. They look better on a killmail, I guess. Perhaps something else to consider?

Solai wrote:


Training frigate 5 will help you get into assault frigate, but more importantly it also gets you into Interceptors. Interceptors are well worth the time to train, due to their utility as solo transportation, and their demand in just about any fleet.

For new guys, I don't suggest training lvl 5 skills, if it can be avoided, but frigate 5 and Evasive Maneuvering 5 for interceptors is one exception. Along the way it allows you to pick up Assault Frigate, which is a side bonus.



That is really good advice, and I wish I'd had it when I first started.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-05-14 10:10:10 UTC
Just train both.

Assault frigs are much more common in fleets, at least in my part of lowsec, but destroyer IV is enough to fly them decently and it's a short train.

Choose a sinlge race and it's preferred weapon system to start, and train the small version (or rockets/light missiles) of the weapon to T2: you'll get to use it on all of that race's frigs and dessies.

Also, find a Corp ASAP and just follow your new corp's advice and suggestions.

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Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#8 - 2014-05-14 11:16:54 UTC
To be honest as a newbie you will have more fun with dessies than with AF simply because AF just as any t2 ship shows its true power in hands of highly skilled AND experienced PLAYER. It is not about your character skills but about YOURS as a player skills. Skill to asses situation, skill to choose if and when to engage, skill to select proper strategy, etc.

Dessie on the other hand will serve you well basically from the start. You have nice engagement envelope, quite a lot of dps to kill and ehp to survive. It is also cheap in comparison to AF so you can practice different things without fear of murdering your wallet in a process.

Personally I trained AFs quite a long time after getting dessie skill to V. And now I fly my thrasher almost exclusively and I have skills to fly almost everything subcap. I just like my thrasher and I still learn how to use it. I mean I learn as a RL person, not as Schmata Bastanold.

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Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2014-05-14 13:33:10 UTC
assault frigs are just cooler imo
Bael Malefic
Doomheim
#10 - 2014-05-14 13:58:41 UTC
Bastion Arzi wrote:
assault frigs are just cooler imo


Shinier, more expensive, take a lot more time to skill up to. But definitely cool.

Dessies are cheap, easy to train into and can be very effective when fit and flown well. A great hull type to learn basic PVP in while you train up to other types of hull.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2014-05-14 14:10:26 UTC
Bael Malefic wrote:
Shinier, more expensive, take a lot more time to skill up to. But definitely cool.

Dessies are cheap, easy to train into and can be very effective when fit and flown well. A great hull type to learn basic PVP in while you train up to other types of hull.


true enough. still i think most dessies would run from an AF
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#12 - 2014-05-14 15:01:54 UTC
tele-guy Toralen wrote:
Just wondering what I should skill in to so I might be able to survive low sec and null when I join a corporation


Plenty of people addressing the first part, so I'll address this. This entirely depends on the corp you join and what they need from you. With certain corps, you're just fine flying no more than cheap T1 frigates over and over. With others, you must be able to fly a capital ship to even have a chance to get accepted. Of course, most are somewhere in between. My advice (perhaps biased by personal experience): find a corp that will take you as you are right now. You can always switch corps later, and idling to train stuff just to make people happy is an unfun way to play.

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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-05-14 18:26:57 UTC  |  Edited by: BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Solai wrote:
Training frigate 5 will help you get into assault frigate, but more importantly it also gets you into Interceptors. Interceptors are well worth the time to train, due to their utility as solo transportation, and their demand in just about any fleet.

For new guys, I don't suggest training lvl 5 skills, if it can be avoided, but frigate 5 and Evasive Maneuvering 5 for interceptors is one exception. Along the way it allows you to pick up Assault Frigate, which is a side bonus.

I guess I don't understand why people say this. I trained into interceptors as my first t2 ships, and can count the number of times I've flown them on one hand. I fly assault frigates for almost everything now. AF's and HAC's are probably the most versatile T2 ships in eve.

OP, for now just train core skills and frigate 5 so you can fly t1 frigates for pvp. From there you can move to any of the t2 frigates or move up to t1 cruiser sized hulls. Destroyers have their place (I fly a catalyst a huge amount for example), but they make strange combat ships. They have a cruiser sized sig raidus with a frigate sized tank, but compensate with insane damage. In most general combat situations an assault frigate will serve you better, but if camping a location, the upfront damage of a thrasher or insane dps of a catalyst can be excellent. There are few things scarier in eve than jumping a cruiser into a 60 person thrasher bubble gate camp.

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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#14 - 2014-05-14 23:25:14 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:

I guess I don't understand why people say this. I trained into interceptors as my first t2 ships, and can count the number of times I've flown them on one hand. I fly assault frigates for almost everything now. AF's and HAC's are probably the most versatile T2 ships in eve.

OP, for now just train core skills and frigate 5 so you can fly t1 frigates for pvp. From there you can move to any of the t2 frigates or move up to t1 cruiser sized hulls. Destroyers have their place (I fly a catalyst a huge amount for example), but they make strange combat ships. They have a cruiser sized sig raidus with a frigate sized tank, but compensate with insane damage. In most general combat situations an assault frigate will serve you better, but if camping a location, the upfront damage of a thrasher or insane dps of a catalyst can be excellent. There are few things scarier in eve than jumping a cruiser into a 60 person thrasher bubble gate camp.


Interesting. BeBop and I both gank, both go on solo and small gang roams, and I love Interceptors and couldn't live without them while he doesn't fly them.

What I'd take away from the conflicting information you are getting here:


- Training at least one Racial Frigate 5 skill is pretty universally considered a good idea.
- AFs are more versatile than destroyers, but destroyers are extremely good at their narrow niches.
- Core skills (Powergrid Management, CPU Management, Weapons Upgrades, Advanced Weapons Upgrades and the two main capacitor skills) are critical to get the most out of AFs in particular. All ships benefit from these skills but tech 2 ships will feel like their electronics are crippled if you do not have them.
- Just because you can fly a 'better' ship (such as an AF instead of a similar tech 1 frigate) does not mean you always should. Tech 1 frigates are still very, very useful tools, and the prerequisites for assault frigates will serve you well for flying them better.

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HillBillyBushwacker HillFolk
Percussive Diplomacy
Sedition.
#15 - 2014-05-18 22:19:33 UTC
Skip the Frig to 5 and go after Cruiser. Once you get the support skills up to t2 fit all three, then start going to t2 ships. But if you cant t 2 fit dont take any ship to 5.

My t1 frig with my support skills will rip apart a t2 frig with a pilot with no support skills.

Just my advice.
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-05-19 07:34:49 UTC
Dictor pilots are always welcome in 0.0 fleets... just another thing to consider
Jaysen Larrisen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2014-05-22 20:29:27 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:

I guess I don't understand why people say this. I trained into interceptors as my first t2 ships, and can count the number of times I've flown them on one hand. I fly assault frigates for almost everything now. AF's and HAC's are probably the most versatile T2 ships in eve.

OP, for now just train core skills and frigate 5 so you can fly t1 frigates for pvp. From there you can move to any of the t2 frigates or move up to t1 cruiser sized hulls. Destroyers have their place (I fly a catalyst a huge amount for example), but they make strange combat ships. They have a cruiser sized sig raidus with a frigate sized tank, but compensate with insane damage. In most general combat situations an assault frigate will serve you better, but if camping a location, the upfront damage of a thrasher or insane dps of a catalyst can be excellent. There are few things scarier in eve than jumping a cruiser into a 60 person thrasher bubble gate camp.


Interesting. BeBop and I both gank, both go on solo and small gang roams, and I love Interceptors and couldn't live without them while he doesn't fly them.

What I'd take away from the conflicting information you are getting here:


- Training at least one Racial Frigate 5 skill is pretty universally considered a good idea.
- AFs are more versatile than destroyers, but destroyers are extremely good at their narrow niches.
- Core skills (Powergrid Management, CPU Management, Weapons Upgrades, Advanced Weapons Upgrades and the two main capacitor skills) are critical to get the most out of AFs in particular. All ships benefit from these skills but tech 2 ships will feel like their electronics are crippled if you do not have them.
- Just because you can fly a 'better' ship (such as an AF instead of a similar tech 1 frigate) does not mean you always should. Tech 1 frigates are still very, very useful tools, and the prerequisites for assault frigates will serve you well for flying them better.



Good encapsulation of the discussion.

I'm pondering the same question as the OP and i'm making my skill plan for the next few months. I've truly been enjoying flying frigates and i tend to like smaller, tighter teams than huge fleets...my impression is that there is little room or time for a newer pilot in the big blobs. Not sure how fun it would be either, seems hard to contribute.

One thing that has been impressed upon me by my friends that brought me back to EVE was to aim for about certificate level III in your racial frigate before you make any real decisions to jump into anything bigger. Seems like pretty good advice in lined with what's posted here.

That said, looks like Destroyer and Frigate certs are pretty closely aligned so you can dip into dessy boats to try out some new things.

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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#18 - 2014-05-22 23:38:54 UTC
The certificates do miss what is (for most ships) the most critical skill, the one that scales the ship's role bonus.

For example, I'm training a Moros alt at the moment. None of the certificates include the skill Gallente Dreadnought despite that offering a 66.67% DPS increase at level 5 compared to 0. Yet they include important but much weaker skills, like Surgical Strike (15% DPS increase at 5 compared to 0).

So make sure you get that skill to 4 quickly for any ship you will be flying much.

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Ethikos
Doomheim
#19 - 2014-05-23 04:57:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Ethikos
This has been mentioned in several ways above, but I personally love frigates so I will throw in my two cents. Destroyers are great and can be very effective, I just dont enjoy them as much due to their fragility. That being said, its all about taste at that point. In other words, what do YOU enjoy flying. Try them out, worst case scenario you have some skill points towards skilling into a Interdictor (T2 Destroyer, Deploys Bubbles) which is always useful in null sec.

On the frigate front, for new pilots I highly recommend trying out all the various T1 frigates. They will give a good overview of the different set ups and ship types you can fly in EvE on the cheap (ie armor / shield / missile / blaster / etc). Once you have some ISK / skill points under your belt, train into Interceptors and Assault Frigates. Personally, I fly a lot of interceptors for Sniggwaffe and love scouting in them. We tend to use interceptors for scouts due to their base speed / bubble immunity in null sec / warp speed / etc. Assault frigates are great ships to try a little 1v1 PvP or to form a relatively cheap but powerful fleet concept around. The nice thing about assault frigates is that you have good resists, a decent base tank, speed, and decent fire power all packed into one relatively cheap ship. Give them a go when your ready.

Sniggwaffe (Waffles)
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#20 - 2014-05-23 05:27:58 UTC
On Interdictors, which have been mentioned a bit.

These are essential in fleet battles in wormholes and nullsec, but they are often suicide ships, which makes them a lot less fun to fly than ships with a bit more staying power.

If you look up the BR-5 bloodbath stats, the ship class that suffered the most losses (in ships, not in ISK) was Interdictors. Everyone hates you, and you die easily.

I'm not discouraging you from training them, just be aware that flying an Interdictor makes for a lot of flying to the battle, ten seconds of actual combat, then you waking up in your medical clone.

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