These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

"Waste of dev time"
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#21 - 2014-05-22 19:04:32 UTC
"Waste of dev time" can mean a bunch of things.

It can be used to tell someone their idea is stupid.

It can be used to suggest that a feature, such as the new in space pop ups, would be better off if it never existed in the first place.

And lastly it can be used to illustrate how something someone might think is a problem, really isn't.

It's a very diverse and useful phrase.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Marsha Mallow
#22 - 2014-05-22 19:07:21 UTC
If it's a little thing, add it to the little things request list.

If it's something major and people point out the wider effects, there's probably no point going nuts over whatever wording they use to dismiss it.

Remember, we aren't really allowed to screech "Shut up and go away, imbecile" in response to bad ideas. "Waste of Dev time" is a codephrase to cover all sorts of things, whenever you whip it out there's a chance of a hilarious meltdown from someone :P

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#23 - 2014-05-22 19:29:40 UTC
The thing that's bothers me about the 'waste of devs time' statement is when things are done or worked on by ccp, and some consider it a waste of time, and then they go 'duh why did you add xxx?!?! fix pos!!!!!!!'

Some people do come up with really stupid ideas.

"Oh man... it would be great if you could like.. oh idk.. smash my ship into a roid, which causes me to mine the roid... yea we can make a new ship class called a asteroid smasher... oh.. TO THE FORUMS!!!!"

Most people don't follow idea's through to there logical conclusion, which is why they tend to suck.

However, if the devs change something, no matter how small, people don't seem to grasp a few things

1) eve is 11 years old, written in single threaded code

2) every little change is actually a big one. why? because they can take small parts, that are written to use single threaded code, and rework it to use multi threads.

3) each small piece fixed, or modified or changed, that is not a database change (i.e. ship armor froing from 1000 to 2000 hp is a database change) uncouples a piece of old code that then free up more old code to fix.

I rarely consider anything a waste of time, unless its NEVER used. The ESS, which I hardly see anywhere, I would consider not a very good idea or use of resources. But it think ti will have a bigger role to play later, so still holding judgment.

The point is, nothing is a time waster, I'd rather have devs working on something, anything, then sitting with there twiddling there thumbs with nothing to do. My $45 a month (3 accounts) help pays for them to do work. As long as they are working, i'm happy.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#24 - 2014-05-22 20:01:06 UTC
Maybe you should try suggesting fewer terrible ideas?

My .02 isk.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#25 - 2014-05-22 20:09:51 UTC
Doreen Kaundur wrote:
This always makes me laugh:

You suggest or debate implementing a feature in EVE, and someone brings up how it "would be a waste of dev time."

Or how so called "fluff" features are a "waste of dev time."

Waste of dev time?

Just how do you define such a statement?

So if it doesn't cater to your little corner of this massive sandbox called EVE, it is a waste of dev time?

Personally I feel that anything that adds to this space sim simulation is never a waste of dev time.

Even CQ, with all it's redundant features and limited space adds to EVE's immersion.

So what is a waste of dev's time?

*Hilmar having the dev team over to paint his house on company time, is a waste of dev time.
*Showing up all stinky and hungover at work at CCP after kegger, is a waste of dev time.

Adding something nice to EVE ,however minor, is never a waste of dev time IMO.

My .02isk



Waste of Dev time could be defined as working on a feature...oh lets say like....W.I.S. that cause's a massive drops of subs to the point it almost bankrupts the company. Is that the type of waste of Dev time you were looking for or maybe over looked?
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-05-22 20:13:21 UTC
OP is pretty much a waste of dev time.














I sooo didn't want to go there.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-05-22 20:15:54 UTC
on a serious note: "waste of Devs time" coming from anyone except these Devs manager doesn't worth attention.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#28 - 2014-05-22 20:17:47 UTC
Why dont people find a game they like to play instead of trying to force an already failed feature that brings zero value to my game?
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#29 - 2014-05-22 20:21:50 UTC  |  Edited by: DaReaper
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Doreen Kaundur wrote:
This always makes me laugh:

You suggest or debate implementing a feature in EVE, and someone brings up how it "would be a waste of dev time."

Or how so called "fluff" features are a "waste of dev time."

Waste of dev time?

Just how do you define such a statement?

So if it doesn't cater to your little corner of this massive sandbox called EVE, it is a waste of dev time?

Personally I feel that anything that adds to this space sim simulation is never a waste of dev time.

Even CQ, with all it's redundant features and limited space adds to EVE's immersion.

So what is a waste of dev's time?

*Hilmar having the dev team over to paint his house on company time, is a waste of dev time.
*Showing up all stinky and hungover at work at CCP after kegger, is a waste of dev time.

Adding something nice to EVE ,however minor, is never a waste of dev time IMO.

My .02isk



Waste of Dev time could be defined as working on a feature...oh lets say like....W.I.S. that cause's a massive drops of subs to the point it almost bankrupts the company. Is that the type of waste of Dev time you were looking for or maybe over looked?


Except it was not incarana that caused the riots, it was the P2W crap that was coming in the nex store and the high prices of stuff. Incarnana being buggy was just the cherry on top. But the riots happened a few weeks after incarnana, once the new letter was leaked, iirc. People seem to forget that part, that the issue was not WiS but the ideas coming form ccp that caused people to bounce. IF WiS had not had the leak after, there would of been annoyance, but I doubt you would of had the backlash, at the same time, if the leak happened way before or months after WiS came out, you would of not had the backlash. The issues was you had a 1, 2 punch from CCP, an already irritated playerbase then just got slapped in the face.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2014-05-22 20:25:23 UTC
I think that many of us really like EVE and are invested in it. We also understand that CCP is a small company, and development resources are always pretty tight. The players want to telegraph to CCP what they want to see: "Hey, this game is about spaceships.. please keep making nice spaceships" or "I'd love to play poker with my corpmates in a holodeck".

When you're talking about needs, there are many mouths and always less food than needed to go around. So it makes sense that when people argue why certain features (that they prefer) take precedence over others, they also throw in "hey, that's not really a good use of CCP's resources"..

It's kind of like fantasy football. We like to fantasize what the next expansion is about, and guys like Fozzie are our star players.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#31 - 2014-05-22 20:39:36 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
I think that many of us really like EVE and are invested in it. We also understand that CCP is a small company, and development resources are always pretty tight. The players want to telegraph to CCP what they want to see: "Hey, this game is about spaceships.. please keep making nice spaceships" or "I'd love to play poker with my corpmates in a holodeck".

When you're talking about needs, there are many mouths and always less food than needed to go around. So it makes sense that when people argue why certain features (that they prefer) take precedence over others, they also throw in "hey, that's not really a good use of CCP's resources"..

It's kind of like fantasy football. We like to fantasize what the next expansion is about, and guys like Fozzie are our star players.



This

It goes with everything from sports to politics, humans think they can do it better, or know a way it should be, however, if given all the info that say CCP has based on player styles, needs, metrics, code, etc, there is usually a reason something is not set the way people think it should be.

But at the same time, CCP is also human, and sometimes they think of an idea, that looks awesome on paper, but once players get it they go.. oh crap we never thought of that.

Hilmar had a great story about can mining when ever first came out. Cans were just tossed in for when a ship pops, no one ever made the connection of using them to mine. When the game went live and he say this he was freaking out lol.

Also, like the ESS, they forgot to turn it off in wh's and lo and behind players used to them make a kinda of local for WH's. We are a smart group, and can find ways to do things the devs don't think of, but we also don't have all the data to know if this new feature or game or whatever will be crap or not.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Captain Finklestein
Doomheim
#32 - 2014-05-22 21:03:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Finklestein
Doreen Kaundur wrote:

So if it doesn't cater to your little corner of this massive sandbox called EVE...

This describes most of the issues/annoyances in regards to player-player interaction, especially when discussing features, ideas and defining fun/relevant gameplay.

Take CODE. for instance. Founded on the principles of simply trolling for fun while fighting bot aspirancy, they have slowly established a mindset that the gameplay style of carebears is somehow inferior and worthy of judgement.

Null entities are no different. It's impossible to have a discussion about income balance or industrial potential without the null-side eventually saying, "well stop being a vag and come out to null then". I do however give Mittens and some other top-dogs credit, as at least they do not actually judge the players themselves for their choice of gameplay (listen to Mittens interview with E-Uni for more on this).

It's just more financially viable for me.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#33 - 2014-05-22 21:11:27 UTC
WoD, waste of dev time.

The time they had the devs write articles for and against gold ammo, waste of dev time.

The other things they did in the "18 months", waste of dev time.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#34 - 2014-05-22 21:16:38 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Why dont people find a game they like to play instead of trying to force an already failed feature that brings zero value to my game?



Because you do not own ccp, and thus your opion is mearly one of 500k. Whereas if 400k want something to be made and you and 99k others don't, that means you are in the minority. Just because it has 'no value to your game' doesn't mean it has no value to THE game. There are more people playing then just you. This is often forgotten.

I personally enjoy mining and rarely do I pvp. But i'm not whining if they make a pvp heavy feature that doesn't change or effect my game play in anyway. I realize that there are lots of people who enjoy that part of the game, so they get new toys, eventually so will I.

Everything adds value to the game, why? Lets take WiS for exsample. There are people who play eve now and would love to play space Barbie. They might even be willing to spend money making space Barbie look sweet when walking around. These people also wan o the ability to jump in a ship, mine, melt yoru face off, play with everyone on one server, etc. You may not like that and chose not to participate, but, that feature could draw in more people, or open up new ways for you to play in space.


A lot of space sims are coming, nothing like eve. Some will fail, some won't. But if eve wants to grow it needs to cator to others while not losing what it is. If a feature, you think is pointless, again WiS, got some love and came out fully working. And that feature brought in 100k MORE people, who were interested in playing that game, with flying and wis, that means you just got 100k MORE people to shoot in the face.

The big picture is what needs to be looked at. Not this 'I have my game play f- everyone else, just make eve easier for me to do what I like' That's not how it works.

Any feature, from PI, to PoS, to Sov, and WiS could bring in new blood for you to shoot. Hell the industry revamp could bring old players who got tired of eves industry stuff back into the fold. Just because you don't see value in something, doesn't mean there is not value in it for others.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#35 - 2014-05-22 21:18:39 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
WoD, waste of dev time.

The time they had the devs write articles for and against gold ammo, waste of dev time.

The other things they did in the "18 months", waste of dev time.



Waste of resources, not dev time. Different devs worked on WoD. However, the money could of been used in eve, valk, legion, etc. So not quite the same thing.

And you do not know what came form WoD. If the tech used to make that, was imported into say, legion, or valk, or eve, and it made all three or one of the three better, which in turn gives ccp more resources, then WoD was not a waste.

Nothing is ever truly a waste

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#36 - 2014-05-22 21:20:58 UTC
Doreen Kaundur wrote:
This always makes me laugh:

You suggest or debate implementing a feature in EVE, and someone brings up how it "would be a waste of dev time."

Or how so called "fluff" features are a "waste of dev time."

Waste of dev time?

Just how do you define such a statement?

So if it doesn't cater to your little corner of this massive sandbox called EVE, it is a waste of dev time?

Personally I feel that anything that adds to this space sim simulation is never a waste of dev time.

Even CQ, with all it's redundant features and limited space adds to EVE's immersion.

So what is a waste of dev's time?

*Hilmar having the dev team over to paint his house on company time, is a waste of dev time.
*Showing up all stinky and hungover at work at CCP after kegger, is a waste of dev time.

Adding something nice to EVE ,however minor, is never a waste of dev time IMO.

My .02isk



"Waste of devtime" = What I don't like.
"Brilliant use of devtime" = What I want.

Now this riddle of human psychology is forever solved. No need to thank me! Big smile
Marsha Mallow
#37 - 2014-05-22 21:43:11 UTC
Captain Finklestein wrote:
Doreen Kaundur wrote:

So if it doesn't cater to your little corner of this massive sandbox called EVE...

This describes most of the issues/annoyances in regards to player-player interaction, especially when discussing features, ideas and defining fun/relevant gameplay.

Take CODE. for instance. Founded on the principles of simply trolling for fun while fighting bot aspirancy, they have slowly established a mindset that the gameplay style of carebears is somehow inferior and worthy of judgement.

Null entities are no different. It's impossible to have a discussion about income balance or industrial potential without the null-side eventually saying, "well stop being a vag and come out to null then". I do however give Mittens and some other top-dogs credit, as at least they do not actually judge the gameplay style of such players (listen to Mittens interview with E-Uni for more on this).

Not all of us have a narrow mindset. Even when my playtime was primarily in null I always maintained an Empire presence for Indy, then later in low/empire doing piracy/ganking. The only areas I've never done much in are FW/WHs, which I'll readily admit and refrain from commenting on (and probably try at some point). It is possible to be in various places with multiple perspectives, and on both sides of various coins - eg, engaged in heavy highsec indy vs ganking/wardecs via merc corps. If you're talking about Carebear vs PVPer, don't forget most PVPers fund their activities via some form of PVE, in various spots. It's the pure PVE crowd who are less likely to engage across multiple areas and playstyles which is why their suggestions and perspectives draw heavy criticism.

You're right that location and affiliation can bias your playstyle to the point proposing or discussing ideas and developments will always either be from a fairly narrow perspective, or have political elements. Whether you support the CSM or not, they are there to present more detailed and nuanced feedback to CCP than the average player. There's a reason a lot of us are intolerant of grr goons - if you ignore them completely you ignore a lot of genuinely smart players, and they'll still find some way to impact the game. But pure highsec PVE grinders really are amongst the most narrowminded (and ignorant), so they can be very disruptive as a result.

At a certain point we also need to allow the Devs to get on with what they think is important. They do mis-step sometimes, we can't have as much control as we'd like, but that's true IRL in most scenarios. We have plenty of option to feedback on really bad changes, and generally get our own way if it is demonstrably poor :P

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#38 - 2014-05-22 21:46:04 UTC
WoD... waste of time... "flushed".

DUST... waste of time... and it's swirling around the toilet bowl...

Fun times.

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2014-05-22 21:46:25 UTC
Well, ideally the devs are the puppets, CSM are the strings, and the players are controlling everything with their fingers. Of course the puppets end up being at pocket level so that they can fish out all the cash for subs and PLEXs.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#40 - 2014-05-22 21:48:24 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Well, ideally the devs are the puppets, CSM are the strings, and the players are controlling everything with their fingers. Of course the puppets end up being at pocket level so that they can fish out all the cash for subs and PLEXs.


Methinks you have the order, and the assigned "roles", somewhat out of sequence... Blink

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )