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Competitive Armor Incursions are BACK
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James Baboli

Warp to Pharmacy

Likes received: 1,038

#21 - 2014-05-21 06:22:03 UTC

The big difference is that armor had, has, and looks to continue to have, a fairly conservative FC culture when it comes to actually putting ships into space.

Why does this matter? A few reasons:

1: Because as you get more experience transmitted between FCs and core players about what is an is not actually survivable, you gain better knowledge of how to set up and run fleets with "less" tank. This is largely due to faster clearing of high DPS ships, better application of what is on grid, etc.

2: The logi standards. When logi are used to being able to semi-coast, they will continue to semi-coast. Getting people trained up to not only fly but really pilot a logistics ship in a given environment takes time, energy and resources. The ships with the minimum tanks need to be on the field. They need that sort of challange to really blossom. There is less of that, and at a lower level than in shields.

3: The fittings. Most armor runs fits that origionated in TDF, with some level of modification. The problems with most TDF fittings have been expounded repeatedly. Suffice it to say that compared to shields, here I have personally anchored HQs with 1 mod and 1 t1 rig, the average fit gives up alot for little gain.

4: The midslot focus. Most armor fleets run a higher mix of effects that apply to the target, rather than affecting the hull they are generated on. These effects, which are essential to many armor doctrines normal runs, are useless to counterproductive in contests. This effect is compounded when the armor pilots do sacrifice gank for superfluous tank.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Sentenced 1989

Likes received: 211

#22 - 2014-05-21 12:29:19 UTC | Edited by: Sentenced 1989

Here is what we ran for 2 months for Vanguards as example

Keep in mind we did use a bit different oneiros due to implants, this version needs CA-1, CA-2, EO-605, RA-705, EM-805. If you can't make it stable, just drop stuff in mids for more cap rechargers.

[Oneiros, TIG Armor 2.0]
800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Explosive Membrane
Capacitor Power Relay II

Shadow Serpentis Remote Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script
Shadow Serpentis Remote Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script
Shadow Serpentis Remote Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script
Shadow Serpentis Remote Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script

Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II

Medium Remote Repair Augmentor II
Medium Remote Repair Augmentor II

Medium Armor Maintenance Bot II x5
Nanite Repair Paste x500

Legion can get way more tank if you change stuff with subs, but we preferred to have ability to spider tank in case of logie DC. you can replace sub for augmented plating, drop the remote repper and replace 800 plate for something more usefull

[Legion, TIG Legion 3.0]
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script
Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script
True Sansha Stasis Webifier
True Sansha Stasis Webifier

Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repairer
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M

Medium Energy Locus Coordinator II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II

Legion Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
Legion Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network
Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers
Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier

As I've said, trying to bring that in TDF was highly discouraged, one of fleet members had full slaves and they told him it's to fragile and might pop. We never had it below 75% armor...

So all in all, armor is just lacking good channels and good logies in most cases.
Running this legion fleet was fun as hell and we did manage to pull 110 mill vs 130 mill we made at time with our pirate BS fleets. Since then pirate BS fleets were hit by warp speed changes and we didn't had all the members full trained to legion or implanted for it (most of us still flew with large gun damage implant in slot 10). So for VG's yea, armor could compete if they change their game a bit, but I have to agree with people already saying - HQ and armor will always be worse then HQ and shield.

The Incursion Guild

Epic Arc Guide

Jill Antaris

Imperial Academy

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 111

#23 - 2014-05-21 16:18:11 UTC | Edited by: Jill Antaris

Well I seen a lot of progress in OIC with the logis just by coming forward with a standard fitting for different skill levels and a clear progression path from T1 to T2 logis.

[Exequror, OIC C4 Exequror]
Internal Force Field Array I
True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
True Sansha Energized Explosive Membrane
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I

Cap Recharger II
Remote Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Remote Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Remote Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Centum C-Type Medium Remote Armor Repairer
Centum C-Type Medium Remote Armor Repairer
Centum C-Type Medium Remote Armor Repairer

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Remote Repair Augmentor II
Medium Remote Repair Augmentor II

Medium Armor Maintenance Bot I x5

[Exequror, OIC C5 Exequror]
Internal Force Field Array I
True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
True Sansha Energized Explosive Membrane
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I

Remote Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Remote Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Remote Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Remote Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Centum C-Type Medium Remote Armor Repairer
Centum C-Type Medium Remote Armor Repairer
Centum C-Type Medium Remote Armor Repairer

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Remote Repair Augmentor II
Medium Remote Repair Augmentor II

Medium Armor Maintenance Bot I x5

[Oneiros, OIC L4 Oneiros]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay

Remote Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Remote Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Remote Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Remote Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repairer
Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repairer

Medium Remote Repair Augmentor II
Medium Remote Repair Augmentor II

Medium Armor Maintenance Bot I x5

[Oneiros, OIC L5 Oneiros]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Corpum A-Type Energized Explosive Membrane
True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay

Shadow Serpentis Remote Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script
Shadow Serpentis Remote Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script
Shadow Serpentis Remote Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script
Shadow Serpentis Remote Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script

Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repairer

Medium Remote Repair Augmentor II
Medium Remote Repair Augmentor II

Medium Armor Maintenance Bot II x5

The overall design philosophies is the same as in my days as TDFs new player pick-up fleet FC and HQ LC, every logi on grid should sport maximum survivability(even with minimal drawbacks in the max RR power) in a setup that works without implants(so the pilot can fly them in the dps clone or the fittings work for people without imps) to ensure it can survive even with slow logis, lack of boosts and being easy to catch by RR fitted battleships with the spider tank if there are problems like disconnects or other logis not putting RR on the 2. logi fast enough after it did catch agro(I normally rep the logi myself when it drops close to 50% armor with my Paladin when I see something like this and point it out to other logi pilot that this is not proper logistic piloting).

The main point I guess is that, by being based on my experience in different channels as FC, LC and Logi pilot myself our logi setup is extreme resistant to failure even while working with newer players, lower dps count and fairly thin dps hulls on grid. The spider tank of the fleet can easy keep a logi alive or help out if there is a problem with the boosts, disconnects or bugs(like no boosts on a single hull in fleet etc.) and helps to ensure 100% safety even while dealing with this problems on grid. This is also the reason why we will take T1 logis(when they have the L4 skills listed in our mailing list as 100% responsible 2. logi on grid) to give newer players the chance to learn how to fly and use a logistic cruiser effective in Incursions and try to include a lot of new players that can't fly BS and join with a bit more squishy Cruisers or BCs her first Incursion fleet without running into safety problems on grid.

Lunkwill Khashour

Ministry of War

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 208

#24 - 2014-05-21 17:06:06 UTC | Edited by: Lunkwill Khashour

Keith Planck wrote:

-Wrong, you can get an armor tank down to 1 rig 1 low if you spend the same amount of isk as people do on invulns
-Most ships have more buffer due to most ships having more armor and also shield, the only exception is the nightmare
-Not true, an armor ship that isn't using a plate is just as fast as a shield ship
-Except the paladins naturally much stronger at armor tanking, deadspace armor paladin can tank more then a deadspace shield vargur
-Who said armor ships require slaves?

- Apart from vanguards, a 1 rig, 1 mod armor Vindi or Mach will take between 20k and 30k more damage before the first reps land than a 1 rig, 1 mod shield Vindi or Mach. This is due to reps landing at end of cycle, the armor ship usually not having any shield left and overloading the invul. A 1 mod 1 rig armor tank is very much possible but you're living much closer 'to the edge' compared to the shield version.

- Once you go bastion, a 1 invul, 2 ancil Vargur (run 1 at a time) has more tank than a 2 ean, 1 x-type rep Paladin before heat or crystals, is cheaper and has an emergency button in the form of the second booster. With sufficient pimpage, you can get the Vargur to a 2 mid active shield tank able to run VG's.

- Biggest difference is still the culture.


Sentenced 1989 Likes received: 211	#25 - 2014-05-21 18:01:03 UTC Oh yea, Vargur tanks much better for same ISK spend on it... A-Type EANM + X-Large Core repper + Damage Control + rig for rep speed gives less tank to paladin then Gistum C Type Invul + Gist X-Type X-Large + Damage Control for Vargur In ISK, I believe that is about at least 1 bill ISK right there and Vargur still tanks more... The Incursion Guild Epic Arc Guide

KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 96
FunGu Arsten KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation Likes received: 96	#26 - 2014-05-21 19:32:53 UTC i too would like to see this magical beast of a paladin that outtanks a vargur...

Alec Freeman

Sebiestor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 322

#27 - 2014-05-21 22:42:04 UTC | Edited by: Alec Freeman

Lunkwill Khashour wrote:

- TDF ships are overtanked and there is no 'well known' high-level armor channel
.

This really... Is the only problem with armour. It can be competitive and has niche's where it beats shield (anyone else remember the 9 legion + 2 Logi NCOs?). However the problem that is endemic in incursion communities in general is there inability to accept and try new things. As much as it would be awesome i doubt we will see any high end armour runners grouping up anytime soon.

Keith Planck

Hi-Sec Huggers

Likes received: 975

#28 - 2014-05-22 03:22:20 UTC | Edited by: Keith Planck

I bet you guys have 2 CCCs on your paladins xD

And don't have 3 reps

[Paladin, tank]

Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Core X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Core X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Core X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Corpum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

[Vargur, tank]

Gist X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pith X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

Both get 4000 dps, both cost 3.5bil

You never fit 2 enams on a paladin...

♞


James Baboli Warp to Pharmacy Likes received: 1,038	#29 - 2014-05-22 07:13:48 UTC Lunkwill Khashour wrote: overloading the invul. It is quite rare to have to heat an invuln outside TVP or WTM, which are the big public communites that run conservative fits because of the lack of consistent high quality logi. Talking more, Flying crazier, And drinking more Making battleships worth the warp

FunGu Arsten

KarmaFleet

Goonswarm Federation

Likes received: 96

#30 - 2014-05-22 11:34:24 UTC | Edited by: FunGu Arsten

Keith Planck wrote:

Cap life? There is little room to improve your tank on the pali, alot of options on the vargur to increase it- which is the point. And make a pali tank 30k dps ( a vargur can)

Still havent seen a pali that out-tanks a vargur

Numba2 Special

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 10

#31 - 2014-05-22 14:05:04 UTC

Keith Planck wrote:

This really only proves that the Vargur's tank is much stronger than the Paladin's. This Paladin is devoting 8 mods and 2 rigs to its tank, compared to 6 mods and 2 rigs for the Vargur. Also, the Vargur is fully capstable while the Paladin is only capstable with its guns turned off. Then consider that the Vargur has the option to plug in crystals and it's not even close.

Lunkwill Khashour

Ministry of War

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 208

#32 - 2014-05-22 18:59:15 UTC | Edited by: Lunkwill Khashour

Numba2 Special wrote:

If you compare the TIG Vargur, Kronos and Paladin, you'll see they al have roughly the same tank. Only difference is the armor ships need A and X type mods while the Vargur does C-types.

However!

A high level armor group will always win HQ's from any shield group. The reason is this:

Quote:

[Nestor, Spacepriest]
Damage Control II
Centum A-Type Energized Explosive Membrane
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Centum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane

Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Core A-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
Remote Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II

Large Remote Repair Augmentor II
Large Remote Repair Augmentor II
Large Remote Repair Augmentor II

Gecko x2
Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x1

less than 1 bil in modules, no implants needed, 1000 drone dps, 3 mids for whatever and reps close to 2,5 guardians worth of armor. 4 of these will rep a HQ site.

They need to be powered though. For this I present the AFK guardian:

Quote:

[Guardian, Battery]
Centii A-Type Thermic Plating
Centii A-Type EM Plating
Corpii C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II

Remote Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
10MN Afterburner II

Large 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Large 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Large 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Large 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Large 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Large 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter

Medium Ancillary Current Router II

A standard guardian with 1 free rig slot and nothing but cap transfers in the highs. You get 2 of these, lock up each other and the 4 Nestors and transfer cap. 1free cap transfer for your fleet.

The HQ logi wing needs 6 ship and additionally provides 4k drone dps (gecko's fly at med drone speed). The guardians can support a 5th Nestor if needed.

You can do it better. With some modification to the Nestor fit, you can power them with 2 Talisman Paladins:

Quote:

[Paladin, Talisman]
Centum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Internal Force Field Array I

Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Core A-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script
Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script

Imperial Navy Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Imperial Navy Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Imperial Navy Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Imperial Navy Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Egress Port Maximizer II
Large Egress Port Maximizer II

They send 2 transfers to each other and 1 to each Nestor. Talisman set needed but the gunnery implant slots are still open and as you see, the Paladins are fully capable combat ships. This results in a 6k dps 6 logi wing.

Only thing left to do is find an incursion group willing to try this.

FunGu Arsten

KarmaFleet

Goonswarm Federation

Likes received: 96

#33 - 2014-05-22 19:46:17 UTC

Lunkwill Khashour wrote:

Numba2 Special wrote:

Quote:

1) rep range...?? webs will always make you sit at the beacons : i'd love to see you do tcrc- mtacs / tpph to burn gates / nrfs to move to spawns....

add: you are unable to burn spawns down with high dps ships.

2) very few linchpin ships to sustain fleet reps - "timed " ecm/neuts will shut things down in about 4 minute... this with max skills and full cap to start with... a disconnect will cripple your rep sustain.

these numbers work on paper, never in practice
sad but true

Numba2 Special

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 10

#34 - 2014-05-22 20:28:02 UTC

Lunkwill Khashour wrote:

If you compare the TIG Vargur, Kronos and Paladin, you'll see they al have roughly the same tank. Only difference is the armor ships need A and X type mods while the Vargur does C-types.

The fits listed on your site show the Vargur using 0 tank rigs, the Paladin using 1 and the Kronos using 2, and as you said the Vargur manages this while using lower quality mods. Pimp the Vargur's invuln and booster to X-types and you can drop the Damage Control while still keeping a much stronger tank than the Paladin/Kronos. This is not to say that Paladins and Kronoses (Kroni?) can't handle VGs, but they definitely need to devote more attention to tank than Vargurs do.

As for the rest, you're going to have a hell of a time with short ranged reps in HQ sites. You won't be able to move the fleet around nearly as efficiently as current fleets do, and even if you could drop the fleet anywhere you wanted there are waves where dps and sniper targets spawn too far away for both groups to apply their damage well.

Cipher Jones

The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars

Likes received: 1,292

#35 - 2014-05-22 21:38:15 UTC

James Baboli wrote:

1. Critical thnking FC > cookie cutter FC every single time bar none.
2. See point number 1 and apply it to logistics.
3. Your mother and I are proud of you honey.
4. The extra DPS of an entire ship outweighs that, especially when its well applied DPS due to the utility slots.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Sentenced 1989

Likes received: 211

#36 - 2014-05-23 13:08:54 UTC

Numba2 Special wrote:

Lunkwill Khashour wrote:

If you compare the TIG Vargur, Kronos and Paladin, you'll see they al have roughly the same tank. Only difference is the armor ships need A and X type mods while the Vargur does C-types.

Those fits listed there are actually on my site, but details :D

However, TIG has been around for almost 3 years now, and we never lost a single ship, that is done solely by multiple redundancies in fleet.

OGB disconnects? Not a problem
Both OGB disconnect? Not a problem
Back when we were flying shield pirate hulls, FC warps by mistake whole fleet out of site, 3 battleships remain? Not a problem.
Back when we were flying shield pirate hulls, both logies DC? Not a problem.

We have moved that mentality over to our Marauder fleets as well.

So, our ships will NEVER drop damage control unit. Best case scenario you get up to max 2 kilometers of range, which in grand scheme of things is negligible. However by dropping DCU you lose lots of EHP which serves its purpose. We don't need resists from it on shield or armor, sole purpose of DCU is there when you disconnect, if you weren't running your booster, we can't remote rep you. So your ship will be there by the end of bastion cycle when it will either warp off or we will remote rep you. Since lately we have been known to fly even as low as with 5 marauders (still you put some alts to leach) if you DC with armor ship on begging of NCO with 5 romi wave without your repper running and pick up aggro, better to have that DCU if you dip into hull by the time we clear the romis.

On the other hand, if we get more people (which we aren't that much actively recruiting beacuse we simply leech with alts in T1 frigates :D) you can lower the A-type to B-type or C-type on armor ships and lose the armor rigs. Having any more tank on Vargur is pointless since it already is able to tank very well.

On tests we did, running with 11 Marauders on grid, you can turn off offgrid boosters and pilots don't even notice (yes, we did turn them off on purpose for 2 hour run and nobody complained, all ships were holding steady). So basically tank can be lowered by far on those ships, its just until we get stable fleets of 10 - 12 Marauders all the time we prefer to have it over tanked and have almost 0% risk of loosing a ship.

Also, keep in mind that these ships can miss the site and go alone in wrong site and just sit there and tank until the rest of the fleet finishes current site and goes there to save the other pilot. And yes, it has been done :D

This however only applies to Vanguard fleets.
For assault fits you would need to double resist (so 2 resist modules instead of one),
For HQ, if you go to bastion you are moron and will either die or you spent billions and billions on implants and tanking modules. So if you ever see bastion Marauder tanking in HQ, gank it, it's purple fit :D

The Incursion Guild

Epic Arc Guide


Numba2 Special State War Academy Caldari State Likes received: 10	#37 - 2014-05-23 14:20:15 UTC \| Edited by: Numba2 Special My apologies, I didn't mean to come off as criticizing your incursion group. My intent was to refute the claim that a Paladin can mount a (local) tank that is comparable to a Vargur's in size and cost, both in terms of ISK and the number of slots dedicated to tank. To be honest, your group sounds like a lot of fun

Nolak Ataru

Hedion University

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 840

#38 - 2014-05-23 14:45:56 UTC

Cipher Jones wrote:

James Baboli wrote:

The big difference is that armor had, has, and looks to continue to have, a fairly conservative FC culture when it comes to actually putting ships into space.

-snip-

1. Most of TDF's FCs are "Cookie Cutter". I posted a armor nightmare with an a-type EANM, asking advice for VGs and the first thing to pop out of someone's mouth was "Plate?" followed closely by "Fit a plate and get slaves."

2. Can't argue with you here as I agree 100%. Thinner tank means logis have to wake up and be on the ball.

3. Point to Baboli here.

4. You can have a 2500 DPS vindicator in fleet but if his midslots are all painters, he can't apply that dps. You need local modules that affect your own turrets as well.

James Baboli

Warp to Pharmacy

Likes received: 1,038

#39 - 2014-05-23 19:37:43 UTC

Nolak Ataru wrote:

This is a fit I want to see now...
But seeing as they cruisers with plates, when they have massive resist and sig tank, and some speed tank, I can see why they would want a plate on that.

Quote:

4. You can have a 2500 DPS vindicator in fleet but if his midslots are all painters, he can't apply that dps. You need local modules that affect your own turrets as well.

Paints on a vindi. Nolak, you just made me mad. Mad like a rail vindi in VGs.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Lunkwill Khashour

Ministry of War

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 208

#40 - 2014-05-23 20:34:56 UTC

James Baboli wrote:

Nolak Ataru wrote:

This is a fit I want to see now...
But seeing as they cruisers with plates, when they have massive resist and sig tank, and some speed tank, I can see why they would want a plate on that.

Standard TDF doctrine. Unless you have slaves, you plate it.

Quote:

Paints on a vindi.

That's very quotable right there

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