Player Features and Ideas Discussion

What in the actual hell are you blathering about, here? "Separated out" from... what?

Everything that has anything to do with the BPO basetype IS just stat changes. Everything else is mainly UI related (and the BPOs have no impact on that either way).

Have you even read the various dev blogs and sticky threads about this?

The industry system is currently being overhauled.

Rather than remove an old legacy of a different system, like they have for extra materials and any number of other changes, this sacred cow cannot be offered up to the content gods.

Why?

Believe it or not, I've very much been a fan of improving invention in a way that very much closes the gap between T2 BPO production and invention production.

I suggested things like POS Construction Arrays where blueprints utilized in these arrays were treated as higher ME blueprints.

I suggested removing the ability to utilize a BPO at a POS array while the BPO was safely stored in a station, long before they announced the upcoming changes, along with benefits to POS construction facilities.

I suggested dramatically increasing the costs of Station S&I jobs, long before they announced the upcoming changes.

One of the underlying goals of my posts has always been to provide boosts to MFG in riskier environments (i.e. at a POS in low / null) that would easily compete with the benefits T2 BPO producers enjoy.

You don't need to remove T2 BPO's, and I have yet to hear a decent reasons why they should be removed.

I've yet to hear a decent reason why they shouldn't be.

Maybe you should try reading up, and you'll see that the industry change is not all being done at once. Invention mechanics are being iterated separately later. If they were just going to tweak ML and PL, and that was all, then why would it be separated out?

Depends on if you are only considering items that were physically removed from the game, or function that were removed. Arguably T2 BPOs being removed would still leave T2 BPCs, so it's just one form of them that would be removed. Like how highsec capitals were removed. There still are a few about, but they aren't allowed to be used. Besides, they could just remove the functionality of T2 BPOs and achieve the same thing.

I've clearly stated reason, in this thread and others. It's not my fault that you refuse to accept any reason given. And no, it won't be due to my efforts, it's inevitable and that's clear.

And lol, the forum wars. If that's what you think this is, then I pity you, genuinely. It's a game bro.

Again:


Your rebuttals:
There impact is minimal: In some cases they have minimal impact, in other cases they have l larger impacts. In either case, they are still an interesting aspect to the game.



AT ships and special edition ships often have unique abilities that make them very potent and desirable, and that is often very reasonable. Furthermore, do you understand what game play is in this game? This is a sandbox, and T2 BPO's create a shitload of content. People attempt to steal them, destroy them, buy them, corner markets with them, use them as investment devices, and more. The content surround them is very much a GAME PLAY reason for keeping them.



We're not talking about changes to their value, which is market determined and cost-bubbled to some stupid level. The proposal you and others are suggesting is ELIMINATING their value and eliminating their utility. Just like proposals to Eliminate SOV or Eliminate Titans; such a move is very stupid because of its extreme. When people spend thousands of man hours and years of game play to achieve a major objective, removing it from the game causes major resentment and ire. If they are out of balance, you retool them, repurpose them, and alter their place in the game in such a manner that you don't completely alienate your long-term playerbase. And guess what, T2 BPO's are NOT a problem, and you have yet to adequately explain how they are.

As such, given the culmination of effort and value they represent, with a change as dramatic as eliminating them, the onus for explaining why CCP should undergo such an extreme course of action is on you.

Can you explicitly state why they should be removed?

I pretty meticulously ripped your concerns apart, demonstrating that the technical aspects that you've made such a big deal over are essentially nonexistent, with the only "edge case" pertaining to the copy system, and not invention. You offered absolutely no counterargument.

I then asked you to even so much as provide an EXAMPLE of the type of change that would actually carry any of the technical concerns you feel are so important, and you couldn't do that.

You keep blathering on about how hard BPOs make it to update invention, but you haven't been able to actually support that argument. Apparently you've mistaken repetition for reasoning, hoping that if you repeat the same false argument enough times, it will magically become true.



Pretty sure nobody said that, either. Are you even capable of posting without lying about what anyone else said?

I can and have owned T2 BPOs so don't try to pull any of that 'jelly' **** on me.

I agree the things need to go. I find it hilarious how the T2 BPO owners are acting like whiny, entitled, spoiled brats and can't give any reason for keeping their prints other than 'wah wah I paid 10 years profits on this thing expecting it to be an isk printing machine'. Some of these dudes are the same people who told me to HTFU when more Scorpion Ishukone Watch editions were released - well, I got out of that bubble, and maybe you guys should get out of the T2 BPO bubble before it's too late.