Player Features and Ideas Discussion

PETITION: remove T2 BPOs from the game entirely.

1. They fundamentally undermine an entire existing mechanic.

2. They heavily distort the market results of said mechanic.

3. Per Fanfest, they are already slated to go at some point.

4. This is supposed to be an industrial overhaul; let's overhaul.

5. People defending them either own them or are part of organizations which own them.

Sweet thread brah, really breaking some new ground. I have a better proposal for balancing T2 BPOs and invention linked in my sig. Cap T2 BPO ME at -3 the best possible invention, and make T2 BPOs the reward for long-term inventors to improve their production throughput.

You're right, they don't have much of an economic impact on the game at all, but then that's not why they should be removed. The impact they have is on invention mechanics themselves. When CCP iterate on the invention mechanics, they have to tiptoe around the changes making sure they don't generate some game breaking gap through T2 BPOs. If they no longer existed, they wouldn't be an issue, and invention mechanics could be changed and tweaked with the effects contained within that mechanic. When an old system which has long been replaced is getting in the way of the newer mechanic, it's clearly time for it to go.

Conversely, what are the arguments for keeping them? Beyond "I WANT MY BPOS!", there aren't any. Like you say, they have no economic impact, they aren't realistically strong enough to be competitive with most markets, so they are just collectors items. So the real solution is to leave them in but stop them from being able to be used functionally. That allows people to keep their collectors items and allows invention mechanics to be freely iterated.

That is horrible logic and misses something very import, just because they may not have a big universe wide economic impact doesn't mean they don't make a significant character level impact.

So would changing capital ship stats, freighter fitting options, or even entire ship roles. Yet CCP does this anyway because it is good for the game as a whole. If we halted everything that had a "significant character level impact" nothing would get done.

Did CCP reimburse people who bought highsec capitals at inflated prices? No.

Does CCP reimburse players who buy mines at inflated prices? No.

Why then do T2 BPOs get this magical handwave? No, they should not, and should be subject to review like all other aspects in the game.

Depends on the cap ship change. They've made plenty of changes that have only nuked a single ship into the ground or raised one above the others. For the owners of the nerfed ship, it's the same.

And either way, T2 BPOs are not an active mechanic, they are an old and now removed system. The BPOs have been given more than enough deprecation time and should be removed to make way for the preferred and active mechanic, invention. All the time T2 BPOs exist invention is more difficult to change, tweak and balance as they also get affected.

CCP shouldn't have to work around changes just because a few people feel their entitled to keep an item from a mechanic that was removed. They should go the way of highsec capitals, you can keep them around by they no longer have a use.

Katherine, if there is something so valuable that the owners are unwilling to use existing mechanics for it, then it definitely needs to be removed. Every other asset in the game is subject to existing mechanics - why the special class for T2 BPOs?

Your choice of words here is awkward. Yes, T2 BPO producers can produce products at lower per-item cost than inventors (when you ignore the cost of ascertaining the T2 BPO). But SO WHAT!!!!

In March 2012, the percentage of modules produce from invention:

93.95% of T2 Gyrostabilizers,
89.77% of 1400mm II,
87.34% of 425mm Rail II,
82.00% of Tachyon II,
74.23% of Torpedo Launcher II.

In March 2012, the percentage of ships produce from invention:

90.23% of Hulks,
67.85% of Sabres
65.01% of Wolves
22.16% of Pilgrims
6.00% of Eagles

Source

♦ Modules and Ammo are primarily produced through invention, so removal of those T2 BPO's wont do anything but HURT the BPO holder. If you want to remove a majorly valuable asset from the game, you need to have a good reason to do so!.

♦ Some T2 Ship production is dominated by t2 BPO holders. However, these items move slowly and are typically priced BELOW the invention production cost (as T2 BPO holders compete with each other too!). The result of removing these BPO's means you and I pay HIGHER PRICES to buy these ships.... How is that good???? Sure, it means people that want to produce Eagles via invention could then make a profit, but who wants to reward the idiotic fool that is trying to produce slow moving T2 Ships for profit by paying more for those ships???? HELL NO!!!

♦ Consider the work most BPO holders put in to acquire their BPO. They lottery ended EIGHT YEARS AGO. So, the players that currently have T2 BPO's have been playing a VERY long time, or have acquired them through hard work in game. Why would you nerf some of the most valuable assets these players have? Just because they corner slow moving markets, or because they make more profit / item produced than you?

If you want to remove T2 BPO's, you should give a better reason than "I'm a ******* idiot green-eyed producer that's upset you can't profitably invent eagles!". Removing T2 BPO's hurts everyone, because we will have to pay more for low-volume T2 items. It hurts those that have invested enormous amounts of time and energy acquiring those t2 BPO's. Who get's helped by this change? ********, idiotic inventors that can't do enough market research to find areas they can profitably produce. Who the **** wants to help them???

p.s. I'm an inventor, and do NOT own t2 BPO's.

No, you must be a secret BPO holder because anyone who doesn't have them must surely want them removed!

I will add that I once bought a T2 BPO. I saw it on contracts for what I knew to be well under its market value. I bought it for 10 billion and went to the sell orders forum where I listed it with a buyout of 20 billion. Someone offered 18 for it and I took it. Total time spent holding it: Less than 12 hours.

Here's the crazy thing:

The BPO, if used for production, would have actually generated a substantial loss - something like a few billion per year. It was just fairly rare as T2 BPOs go and had value as a collectors item and speculative investment.

SO WHAT??? Why do we care if they distort the production of Eagles?




I EXPECT every competent producer to do a little research! They plug in their numbers and go, I can produce Eagles for 200m, but currently they are selling for 175m. That seems like a **** poor thing to produce then, doesn't it!

And if some new player can't do that, then I DON'T CARE. They are morons and I sure as hell don't want to pay 210m for that Eagle just so they can make a profit when they are so shortsighted and incompetent they shouldn't be producing in the first place!




Why, because your jealous? Give a good reason that doesn't involve me giving more money to some stupid, idiotic schmuck that can't properly research the profitability of their invention business.