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[Kronos] Freighters and Jump Freighters Rebalance [Updated]

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M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#2201 - 2014-05-22 00:30:57 UTC
Low slots makes for a much better change than rigs, as rigged freigthers would face the same problem as rigging a T3, adaptability is lost due to the permanence of rigs.

Updated change is a great improvement, always nice to see when CCP is willing to work with players.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#2202 - 2014-05-22 00:44:10 UTC
Has anyone run the numbers on the total value a fully tanked a anshar can hold now?
Polo Marco
Four Winds
#2203 - 2014-05-22 00:47:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Polo Marco
Warr Akini wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Ok, new tables:

• The full gamut of Tank vs. Cargo (red = worse than both base and Rubicon stats; yellow = better than Rubicon, worse than base; blue = better than base, worse than Rubicon; green = better than both).

tl;dr: the only ones who have anything to complain about anything anymore are gankers…


Indeed. I suppose it's time to speak up, then.

So then, the question to CCP Fozzie is if this is meant to be a nearly straight EHP buff for freighters, offering 75% EHP bonus on the upside versus only a 3-20% EHP drop on the downside. I'm happy to accept the nerfbat, as the Ministry of Love and me in particular have benefited in laughs and dollars over the past two years pretty heavily (not to mention Burn Jita and etc, which of course will still continue regardless), but note that not many other organizations have been able to sustain that kind of activity, and this will only increase the barrier to entry for gankers (I suspect plenty of folks in this thread would love to see that, but if you're in that camp you might imagine I'm not talking to you). So then, is this meant to be a survivability buff? Fully bulkheaded jump freighters, sitting at between 500-675k EHP (versus current of 320-365), will be damned near unkillable outside of being caught on beacons and poorly-placed cynos in lowsec. Hell, that's a quarter of a trimark/DC'd dreadnought.




Hey Warr, been watchin you guys up in the Citadel/Forge/Jita area poppin freighters. :D.. Next time you fly by one of the ice fields up there.. like say Kamio... look at what's sitting there. In every belt, every spawn, you will find a couple of Macks out there with three harvester upgrades in the low end. while the pilots are watchin TV or whatever the local Goon wannabees are popping them like balloons. CCP actually buffed the other miners this time because so many players are flying the floating targets. I figure freighters will be the same way. I'm sure you will have very good hunting with lots of low skill noob corp alts out there on autopilot with 3 cargo expanders fitting. Don't worry, it's OK to drool ... :D.. Just think maybe it'll get so bad that if let's say the Charon becomes the new FOTM like the MAck, they might even make the other boats even tankier.... O_O

Eve teaches hard lessons. Don't blame the game for your own failures.
Ben Hatton
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2204 - 2014-05-22 00:56:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ben Hatton
Rowells wrote:
Has anyone run the numbers on the total value a fully tanked a anshar can hold now?

121,167 m3 with Bulkhead IIs giving it 662,692 EHP

http://xyjax.com/optimizer_kronos/
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#2205 - 2014-05-22 01:04:53 UTC
Don't look at the fully tanked ARK

PS - don't use bulkheads
stoicfaux
#2206 - 2014-05-22 01:08:41 UTC
Warr Akini wrote:


Taking a quick look at Tippia's tables (which I will confirm when my little trained minions get around to hacking up EFT or something similar to it with numbers), there are a few things that are pretty concerning for someone who built the last two years of his EVE career on freighter ganking, with all the commensurate laughs and guffaws. There are of course many less people doing what I do than say hauling goodies around; everyone hauls at some stage or has someone haul for them - the Ministry of Love is no exception, but when there's such a glaring numbers issue put in front of me it's hard not to speak up.

Eh... hate to say it, but who cares if it's harder to gank a freighter in high-sec anymore? If we're going to be able to build player star gates, then we're probably going to need a huge (and reliable) industrial and *logistics* base with which to do it. The concerns of the builders is going to outweigh the concerns of the anarchists.

To put it simply, suicide ganking freighters is small time banditry. The real goal in attacking freighters is to disrupt another alliance from building their stargate first. That's where the real money/action/impetus will be, IMHO.


My apologies for sounding a bit harsh and dismissive of your concerns, but freighters haven't had any meaningful ways of adapting their freighters to the environment except by CCP Fiat. Now they finally get a buff and some options.


tl;dr - A Commerce Raiding release will happen. No more ganking. It's time for real war.


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#2207 - 2014-05-22 01:12:15 UTC
Ben Hatton wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Has anyone run the numbers on the total value a fully tanked a anshar can hold now?

121,167 m3 with Bulkhead IIs giving it 662,692 EHP

http://xyjax.com/optimizer_kronos/


With max skills it's giving me 712,327 EHP LolLol

Flying fortress trucking its way to Jita! Twisted

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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#2208 - 2014-05-22 01:12:29 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I want to take this opportunity to remind people that pre-patch market speculation is never guaranteed and CCP takes no responsibility for any isk lost from speculation.


hehehehe...

Now let's hope you don't need to say a similar thing to me after all of the items I have been purchasing to speculate on a proposed Crius change.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
45thtiger 0109
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#2209 - 2014-05-22 01:19:59 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Everybody! Speculate now in capital rigs!

Anyone want to buy a Nomad?



Sorry Tippia I have one of those as well.

Hi CCP Fozzie please don't make a terrible choice in balancing the JF & Freighters.

You know they are slow and agile and to make them slower it not worth of having them at all.

Also allot of players who have them will sell them on the market & the market will be flooded with freighters and JF and no one will buy them if you bring this change in.

**You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.

Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#2210 - 2014-05-22 01:21:45 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
Ben Hatton wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Has anyone run the numbers on the total value a fully tanked a anshar can hold now?

121,167 m3 with Bulkhead IIs giving it 662,692 EHP

http://xyjax.com/optimizer_kronos/


With max skills it's giving me 712,327 EHP LolLol

Flying fortress trucking its way to Jita! Twisted

Sorry, meant to know what value the ship can hold in isk before it's profitable to gank.
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#2211 - 2014-05-22 01:23:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Chandaris
Heard about the recent update, sounds great.

Honestly I think they should give these ships rigs and lowslots.. outside of a jump drive, these ships are utterly defenseless.. with any combination of rigs and lowslots (esp with those CPU limitations), they're still pretty much defenseless..

even with just the lowslots as is, is a great chance tho gg
Delhaven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2212 - 2014-05-22 01:34:34 UTC
Rowells wrote:
TigerXtrm wrote:
Ben Hatton wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Has anyone run the numbers on the total value a fully tanked a anshar can hold now?

121,167 m3 with Bulkhead IIs giving it 662,692 EHP

http://xyjax.com/optimizer_kronos/


With max skills it's giving me 712,327 EHP LolLol

Flying fortress trucking its way to Jita! Twisted

Sorry, meant to know what value the ship can hold in isk before it's profitable to gank.

Plug it into the site. The values are at the bottom.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#2213 - 2014-05-22 02:40:50 UTC
What's the reasoning for not allowing BOTH rigs and lows? Or making them, you know...normal with mids and highs and such too?
Station Sitter
Heavy Star Industries
#2214 - 2014-05-22 02:56:18 UTC
Love the new changes a hell of a lot more. Thanks for listening to the community!
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#2215 - 2014-05-22 03:00:46 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
What's the reasoning for not allowing BOTH rigs and lows? Or making them, you know...normal with mids and highs and such too?



why not just give it 8H 8M 8L 8 rig slots with 800 calibration 500cpu 500 powergrid and 6k shield armor and hull with a cargo size of 6000



any slots it gets will come out of its hull to compensate for the flexibility of fitting. And as its job is moving things from one location to another I'm not sure wtf you would use high slots or mid slots for as it has 2 important things hull tank and cargo space both are low slots and there's nothing in the mids or highs that would help with that.
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#2216 - 2014-05-22 03:26:15 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Lena Lazair wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The numbers are now corrected in the OP.


Can you confirm in contrast that the agility nerf to JFs is intentional? (from 0.05 to 0.0625)?


It's intentional, although I have been seeing a few good arguments for reconsidering it in the thread so far.

I love how so many people are so buttmad that Jump Freighters are getting nerfed, yet nobody can possibly wrap their heads around the idea that a ship that THEY FLY might be getting nerfed intentionally.

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature
PaulsAvatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2217 - 2014-05-22 03:31:28 UTC
Delhaven wrote:
Rowells wrote:
TigerXtrm wrote:
Ben Hatton wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Has anyone run the numbers on the total value a fully tanked a anshar can hold now?

121,167 m3 with Bulkhead IIs giving it 662,692 EHP

http://xyjax.com/optimizer_kronos/


With max skills it's giving me 712,327 EHP LolLol

Flying fortress trucking its way to Jita! Twisted

Sorry, meant to know what value the ship can hold in isk before it's profitable to gank.

Plug it into the site. The values are at the bottom.


Site looks very handy but I don't know if I trust the numbers. Right now it's saying that a freighter can only carry about a quarter million in goods before it starts becoming profitable to gank. Goes contrary to the idea of a billion being the max collateral that seems fairly standard to hauling corps.

I like the new changes. It doesn't cost me billions to get similar to what I have now, and actually gives me a fair amount of choice in setting it up and tuning it to my style, and I can cheaply and quickly change it if I want to.

+1 for new proposal.
Ben Hatton
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2218 - 2014-05-22 03:37:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Ben Hatton
PaulsAvatar wrote:


Site looks very handy but I don't know if I trust the numbers. Right now it's saying that a freighter can only carry about a quarter million in goods before it starts becoming profitable to gank. Goes contrary to the idea of a billion being the max collateral that seems fairly standard to hauling corps.

I like the new changes. It doesn't cost me billions to get similar to what I have now, and actually gives me a fair amount of choice in setting it up and tuning it to my style, and I can cheaply and quickly change it if I want to.

+1 for new proposal.

Unfortunately the 1 bill has been a false hope for a while since catalysts in the right numbers can gank freighters. The 1 bill was often based on using battle cruiser hulls
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#2219 - 2014-05-22 03:54:09 UTC
The only concern that seems to exist is shield ships not having an option like adaptive nano plating. Perhaps a low slot option only available to freighter and JF's that is exactly the same but affects shields?

This would require only one new mod in the game.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Axe Coldon
#2220 - 2014-05-22 03:54:22 UTC
CCP Fozzie,

Well the changes are good. Heard that alot. It concerns me there is no way to boost the shields of the shield tank freighters and everyone will be trading in their Caldari Freighters for Amarr.

Can you come up with some way to shield tank without messing up the balance. i.e. a special freighter only mod that does shield resistances instead of armor. Or add 1 midslot with super low power and cpu and then a mid version of adaptive nano.

I get racially the charon should have shield instead of armor but the armor tanked ones will be able to take best advantage of the change.

If you can't that's fine. 3 low slots are better then no slots.

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