These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Why Eve isn't more popular?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#501 - 2014-05-21 17:26:49 UTC
CCP focuses far to much on old player retention and the bitter vets that it kills the game for new players. Clear examples of this are T2BPO2 allowing pet players to ride over new players in industry. Siphon units being left broken (which were going to give new players a chance) is another clear example.
Prince Kobol
#502 - 2014-05-21 17:30:57 UTC
meh.. Just add more bewbs and you will get more players
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#503 - 2014-05-21 17:32:22 UTC
Kind of silly to say that the players are supposed to create the content themselves. I mean would you give a bunch of kids a block of ice and tell them to go "create a sculpture"? What do you think they're going to do? By the time they're done you'll have a pile of slush, not an elegant swan.

Content is important and it's expensive to produce and it's time consuming to produce, yes. But in my opinion if CCP had unlocked that stupid locked door in Captains Quarters and started actually generating some content instead of putting resources into some other dumb projects then perhaps their new player retention rate would be higher.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#504 - 2014-05-21 17:34:53 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Maldam wrote:


And all the while some veteran PVP players complain about how "shooting red crosses in PVE" is no challenge, they insist that it is the epitome of competition to gank helpless miners and low skilled new players.



Less "challenge" and more "entertaining". What it also is, is more valuable.

The guy shooting red crosses is, frankly, of less value to the game. He's running the isk faucet, he's not interacting with others, and he's not enhancing anyone's experience except his own, right up until someone else decides to interact with him, which brings us to...

The guy who comes along and frags him! That guy...

-Generates content for himself!
-Generates content for his victim! That guy was probably watching Netflix while F1 cycling, and suddenly, excitement! Meaningful loss that, in turn, creates meaningful value for his PvE activities! Danger! Adrenaline!
-Stimulates the economy, thereby generating content for industrialists and other mission runners! Someone needs a new hull and fittings! Maybe needs some new implants, too!
-Generates content for his friends, in the form of hilariously angry evemails and threats of vengeance!

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#505 - 2014-05-21 17:35:09 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Maldam wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Vivec Septim wrote:

Again, PvE is only dumb if no effort is made to keep it fresh. I've put some ideas forward which is more than just "PvE is dumb, it should be ignored/removed"


You don't seem to get it yet.

Shooting red crosses will never be "fresh". It will always be shooting red crosses, because the computing power needed to make their AI anything but the incredibly binary behavior it is now would be a massive drain on the game's servers.

Nevermind that CCP has tried updating their AI within their means before, and guess what? Players figured it out after a month, and then people like you cried for more.

Just. Like. Wow.

You want CCP to exist to create content for you to consume. The real EVE players, on the other hand, realize what a sandbox is, and are playing in one.



And all the while some veteran PVP players complain about how "shooting red crosses in PVE" is no challenge, they insist that it is the epitome of competition to gank helpless miners and low skilled new players.



So what? Notice how I'm creating my own content, not asking CCP to throw money away to do it for me. That's what we're talking about here.



You are the kind of customer I dream about. Happy with the status-quo, pays me and does my job for me! If only I could find more.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#506 - 2014-05-21 17:37:47 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Clear examples of this are T2BPO2 allowing pet players to ride over new players in industry.



Isn't it amazing how everyone's pet issue is THE problem? Roll

If Dinsdale happened by, I'm sure the answer would be, "Because Goons!"

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Galen Darksmith
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#507 - 2014-05-21 17:41:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Galen Darksmith
Victoria Sin wrote:
Kind of silly to say that the players are supposed to create the content themselves. I mean would you give a bunch of kids a block of ice and tell them to go "create a sculpture"? What do you think they're going to do? By the time they're done you'll have a pile of slush, not an elegant swan.



I find it humorous that you didn't even come to the same conclusion the kids would: take the slush and make slushballs to pelt each other with.

There is a reason EVE is called a sandbox. You're dumped onto the beach and told "Go do something interesting." What the developers give you are beach balls, buckets, shovels, and other tools with the intent of helping you come up with something interesting.

Coming into EVE and expecting CCP to spoon feed you content is like me going over to WoW and expecting to be able to build a house, surround it with traps, and prey on Alliance and Horde travelers alike as some sort of bandit king. Which would be frickin' awesome, but I can't do it because games like WoW are geared towards people with no imagination who would rather grind "PvE Encounter #687" than actually think of something themselves.

"EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for." -CCP Wrangler
E Thatcher
Perkone
Caldari State
#508 - 2014-05-21 17:46:56 UTC
THe dark and black backgrounds have to go. Any moron web designer knows not to design in black if you want visitors. The Dark and BLack backgrounds are an ego trip that most people don't want to climb aboard.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#509 - 2014-05-21 17:48:52 UTC
Galen Darksmith wrote:

Coming into EVE and expecting CCP to spoon feed you content is like me going over to WoW and expecting to be able to build a house, surround it with traps, and prey on Alliance and Horde travelers alike as some sort of bandit king. Which would be frickin' awesome, but I can't do it because games like WoW are geared towards people with no imagination who would rather grind "PvE Encounter #687" than actually think of something themselves.


Not to mention the fact that if you tried to do that in WoW, and went on to their forums complaining that you couldn't, you would be told that you were playing the wrong game.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#510 - 2014-05-21 18:04:36 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Harrison Tato wrote:



You are the kind of customer I dream about. Happy with the status-quo, pays me and does my job for me! If only I could find more.


This is highly representative of not really "getting" Eve. I don't go out and make my own content because CCP isn't doing their job of providing me with enough content - I do that because that's the point and the structure of the game.

CCP's job isn't to spoonfeed me canned experiences (which, in short order, will be completely mastered, boring, and grindy), but rather to provide a framework for generating a large, diverse set of experiences.

By way of analogy, Eve is a lot like a grocery store. I go to the store and pay them for groceries so I have materials to cook my own meal at home. They have a few prepared meals in the store - the ubiquitous rotisserie chicken, for example - but they generally don't have a full restaurant on hand, nor staff to cook your meal for you, and people don't expect them to.

Where the analogy falls apart is that Eve is basically a grocery store in an Idiocracy-style world populated by people who have only ever known fast food restaurants, and are dumbfounded by the very concept of a grocery store. They hit the produce aisle and have no idea what they're supposed to do with this ****.

And raw meat? Why isn't this already in the form of a hamburger?

Coffee beans? You know, they just give you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

Why is this spaghetti dry? It's not dry when I order it from Olive Garden. What gives? Why isn't there already meat between these slices of bread? What the hell am I supposed to do with a bottle of ketchup when I don't have any french fries?

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#511 - 2014-05-21 18:11:02 UTC
Well, lets say not many players are good in creating content generally, or they create content thad do not fit nicely in EVE like fanarts or Fanfiction (who cares about it seriously). Most people will expect something to consume because they thought they pay for it.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#512 - 2014-05-21 18:13:44 UTC
Content Locusts - Ruining just about every MMO since UO.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#513 - 2014-05-21 18:42:22 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:



You are the kind of customer I dream about. Happy with the status-quo, pays me and does my job for me! If only I could find more.


This is highly representative of not really "getting" Eve. I don't go out and make my own content because CCP isn't doing their job of providing me with enough content - I do that because that's the point and the structure of the game.

CCP's job isn't to spoonfeed me canned experiences (which, in short order, will be completely mastered, boring, and grindy), but rather to provide a framework for generating a large, diverse set of experiences.

By way of analogy, Eve is a lot like a grocery store. I go to the store and pay them for groceries so I have materials to cook my own meal at home. They have a few prepared meals in the store - the ubiquitous rotisserie chicken, for example - but they generally don't have a full restaurant on hand, nor staff to cook your meal for you, and people don't expect them to.

Where the analogy falls apart is that Eve is basically a grocery store in an Idiocracy-style world populated by people who have only ever known fast food restaurants, and are dumbfounded by the very concept of a grocery store. They hit the produce aisle and have no idea what they're supposed to do with this ****.

And raw meat? Why isn't this already in the form of a hamburger?

Coffee beans? You know, they just give you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

Why is this spaghetti dry? It's not dry when I order it from Olive Garden. What gives? Why isn't there already meat between these slices of bread? What the hell am I supposed to do with a bottle of ketchup when I don't have any french fries?



Yeah, that is why I just buy blank notebooks at the grocery store to read lol.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#514 - 2014-05-21 18:48:22 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Harrison Tato wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:



You are the kind of customer I dream about. Happy with the status-quo, pays me and does my job for me! If only I could find more.


This is highly representative of not really "getting" Eve. I don't go out and make my own content because CCP isn't doing their job of providing me with enough content - I do that because that's the point and the structure of the game.

CCP's job isn't to spoonfeed me canned experiences (which, in short order, will be completely mastered, boring, and grindy), but rather to provide a framework for generating a large, diverse set of experiences.

By way of analogy, Eve is a lot like a grocery store. I go to the store and pay them for groceries so I have materials to cook my own meal at home. They have a few prepared meals in the store - the ubiquitous rotisserie chicken, for example - but they generally don't have a full restaurant on hand, nor staff to cook your meal for you, and people don't expect them to.

Where the analogy falls apart is that Eve is basically a grocery store in an Idiocracy-style world populated by people who have only ever known fast food restaurants, and are dumbfounded by the very concept of a grocery store. They hit the produce aisle and have no idea what they're supposed to do with this ****.

And raw meat? Why isn't this already in the form of a hamburger?

Coffee beans? You know, they just give you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

Why is this spaghetti dry? It's not dry when I order it from Olive Garden. What gives? Why isn't there already meat between these slices of bread? What the hell am I supposed to do with a bottle of ketchup when I don't have any french fries?



Yeah, that is why I just buy blank notebooks at the grocery store to read lol.


Like I was saying: Idiocracy. Roll

When you buy a notebook from the grocery store, do you complain to the seller of the notebook that it wasn't a real page turner? Do you suggest that perhaps they should try selling their notebooks prefilled with words? Do you rage about the notebook status quo? Do you gripe about the notebook maker expecting you to do their job for them?

Similarly, a grocery store and a restaurant are different businesses that operate in different fashions, and the same goes for Eve and (almost) every other MMO in existence. You're standing in a grocery store and complaining that it isn't a restaurant. If you want a restaurant, why don't you just go to a restaurant?

If you wanted a novel, why would you buy a notebook and then complain that it isn't a novel, and blame anyone other than yourself for not understanding the obvious difference between the two?

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#515 - 2014-05-21 18:56:31 UTC
Purpose of game like EVE is not like your average MMO themepark, its different kind of pasta, it bites back. Lol

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Galen Darksmith
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#516 - 2014-05-21 19:03:15 UTC
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Well, lets say not many players are good in creating content generally, or they create content thad do not fit nicely in EVE like fanarts or Fanfiction (who cares about it seriously). Most people will expect something to consume because they thought they pay for it.


That fits into SurrenderMonkey's very apt analogy: just because someone bought a notebook and thought they were paying for a novel doesn't change that what they actually bought was a notebook. The mistake is on them alone, and demanding that the notebook be changed into a novel to suit their preconceptions on what a collection of paper pages MUST be is hilariously wrong.

"EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for." -CCP Wrangler
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#517 - 2014-05-21 19:16:47 UTC
Galen Darksmith wrote:
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Well, lets say not many players are good in creating content generally, or they create content thad do not fit nicely in EVE like fanarts or Fanfiction (who cares about it seriously). Most people will expect something to consume because they thought they pay for it.


That fits into SurrenderMonkey's very apt analogy: just because someone bought a notebook and thought they were paying for a novel doesn't change that what they actually bought was a notebook. The mistake is on them alone, and demanding that the notebook be changed into a novel to suit their preconceptions on what a collection of paper pages MUST be is hilariously wrong.


Hilariously wrong and unbelievably entitled.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#518 - 2014-05-21 19:23:14 UTC
Ah fanboys :)
Galen Darksmith
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#519 - 2014-05-21 19:32:49 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
Ah fanboys :)


Thank you for so eloquently surrendering the point by resorting to kindergarten-style name-calling.

"EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for." -CCP Wrangler
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#520 - 2014-05-21 19:49:02 UTC
Galen Darksmith wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
Ah fanboys :)


Thank you for so eloquently surrendering the point by resorting to kindergarten-style name-calling.



He started it!


LOL

Anyway, my Grandpappy always said "Son don't wrassle with them pigs. You'ens ull both get muddy but the pig likes it."