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Why Eve isn't more popular?

First post
Author
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#481 - 2014-05-21 16:36:33 UTC
Vivec Septim wrote:
Well, in PvP terms, allow them to create their content.

There is nothing wrong in wanting something 'more' than what we have
currently from PvE missions.

One idea that I put forth is allowing players to 'craft' missions, submitting them to CCP, and potentially seeing them
in mission rotations.

Why not just GM a mission for your corpies or for other corpies?

If other sections of the community dont need CCP support to create content, why do you?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Vivec Septim
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#482 - 2014-05-21 16:36:44 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Vivec Septim wrote:
straw man


Please stop saying this phrase


Logical fallacy is a Logical fallacy.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. 

Vivec Septim
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#483 - 2014-05-21 16:38:13 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Vivec Septim wrote:
Well, in PvP terms, allow them to create their content.

There is nothing wrong in wanting something 'more' than what we have
currently from PvE missions.

One idea that I put forth is allowing players to 'craft' missions, submitting them to CCP, and potentially seeing them
in mission rotations.

Why not just GM a mission for your corpies or for other corpies?

If other sections of the community dont need CCP support to create content, why do you?


Holding CCP accountable for lack of development on the current situation with mission stagnation is NOT a bad thing.

A fresh alternative to PvP is not bad; and 'may' help players needing a break from such things.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. 

Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#484 - 2014-05-21 16:38:45 UTC
Vivec Septim wrote:

Logical fallacy is a Logical fallacy.

Yes, and "logically fallacy" not a flavour-of-the-month buzzword thats over-used and poorly understood

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#485 - 2014-05-21 16:40:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Vivec Septim wrote:


Holding CCP accountable for lack of development on the current situation with mission stagnation is NOT a bad thing.

A fresh alternative to PvP is not bad; and 'may' help players needing a break from such things.


Well you just happen to look at it differently than I do guess

I dont see missions as entertainment, just a grind to make isk

Therefore, they dont need to be fancy, just functional

Hell, they need cut down a bit tbh imho

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Vivec Septim
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#486 - 2014-05-21 16:40:08 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Vivec Septim wrote:

Logical fallacy is a Logical fallacy.

Yes, and "logically fallacy" not a flavour-of-the-month buzzword thats over-used and poorly understood


I don't see it used that often, but hey, painting it as a buzzword and pushing it to the side? Awesome, bro.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. 

Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#487 - 2014-05-21 16:42:01 UTC
Vivec Septim wrote:


I don't see it used that often, but hey, painting it as a buzzword and pushing it to the side? Awesome, bro.


You make a lot of assumptions about others intent, sis

How exactly did I push your accusations to the side with my sentence?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#488 - 2014-05-21 16:44:55 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Vivec Septim wrote:


Holding CCP accountable for lack of development on the current situation with mission stagnation is NOT a bad thing.

A fresh alternative to PvP is not bad; and 'may' help players needing a break from such things.


In a world with unlimited resources and no concept of ROI, maybe.

We do not live in that world, and they're not developing in that world.

Still waiting for you to explain how the game has somehow managed to consistently grow in the absence of the thing you say is required to grow, btw.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Vivec Septim
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#489 - 2014-05-21 16:45:12 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Vivec Septim wrote:


I don't see it used that often, but hey, painting it as a buzzword and pushing it to the side? Awesome, bro.


You make a lot of assumptions about others intent, sis

How exactly did I push your accusations to the side with my sentence?


By saying that pointing out a logical fallacy as a 'buzzword' (has negative connotations), you attempt to de-legitimize any attempt to point them out as 'weak counter-arguments'.

You are correct though. Perhaps I am a bit of a far assumption...

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. 

Vivec Septim
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#490 - 2014-05-21 16:46:23 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Vivec Septim wrote:


Holding CCP accountable for lack of development on the current situation with mission stagnation is NOT a bad thing.

A fresh alternative to PvP is not bad; and 'may' help players needing a break from such things.


In a world with unlimited resources and no concept of ROI, maybe.

We do not live in that world, and they're not developing in that world.


Creatinve thinking and expanding on their hardware could definitely remedy these situations.

Not just more o' the same...

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. 

Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#491 - 2014-05-21 16:47:55 UTC
Vivec Septim wrote:

By saying that pointing out a logical fallacy as a 'buzzword' (has negative connotations), you attempt to de-legitimize any attempt to point them out as 'weak counter-arguments'.

You are correct though. Perhaps I am a bit of a far assumption...

Those are your assumptions, not my intentions

And Im simply saying the phrase "strawman" is used far far too often these days, and in a lot of cases (not specifically yours, I didnt read what you were refuting so I have no idea if it was legitimate or not) incorrectly.

ANYWAY

Now that bit of semantics and hurt feelies has been dealt with;

Why cant you create your own PvE engagements?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#492 - 2014-05-21 16:48:43 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:

In a world with unlimited resources and no concept of ROI, maybe


I too dream of a world where the Republic Of Ireland never existed Blink

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Vivec Septim
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#493 - 2014-05-21 16:50:04 UTC
I do often -- pulling together groups to run missions and to do things. It helps make it *tolerable*.

Maybe more types of missions, requiring groups or a different way of completion rather than shoot X, or take Y from A to B?

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. 

Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#494 - 2014-05-21 16:51:18 UTC
Vivec Septim wrote:
I do often -- pulling together groups to run missions and to do things. It helps make it *tolerable*.

Maybe more types of missions, requiring groups or a different way of completion rather than shoot X, or take Y from A to B?


You mean like Epic Story Arcs and Incursions, that sort of thing?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Vivec Septim
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#495 - 2014-05-21 16:51:59 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Vivec Septim wrote:
I do often -- pulling together groups to run missions and to do things. It helps make it *tolerable*.

Maybe more types of missions, requiring groups or a different way of completion rather than shoot X, or take Y from A to B?


You mean like Epic Story Arcs and Incursions, that sort of thing?


Yes, but with new ones -- the current ones are neat, but there has been little to no development in either.
Kind of stagnating in a way.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. 

Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#496 - 2014-05-21 16:55:18 UTC
Vivec Septim wrote:

Yes, but with new ones -- the current ones are neat, but there has been little to no development in either.
Kind of stagnating in a way.


Well like I said, I doubt Ill see it from your point of view

I dont really see what the attraction is in PvE in a multiplayer game is anyway. It kinda spoils the immersion somewhat knowing that no matter how many Thukkers or Guristas are put on spikes, they will all respawn tomorrow

That gives me a sad

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#497 - 2014-05-21 17:01:59 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Vivec Septim wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Vivec Septim wrote:


I don't see it used that often, but hey, painting it as a buzzword and pushing it to the side? Awesome, bro.


You make a lot of assumptions about others intent, sis

How exactly did I push your accusations to the side with my sentence?


By saying that pointing out a logical fallacy as a 'buzzword' (has negative connotations), you attempt to de-legitimize any attempt to point them out as 'weak counter-arguments'.

You are correct though. Perhaps I am a bit of a far assumption...


You don't really have a position beyond, "Make PvE moar betterer!" Most of your posts consist of a lot of highly malleable, amorphous notions that can be conveniently hammered into whatever shape is needed at the moment, which you then present as not just fact, but self-evident, frequently in direct contradiction to actual known facts.

That being the case, crying "strawman" is a bit preposterous - your positions are so poorly defined to begin with that accusing anyone else of creatively reinterpreting them is silly and hypocritical.

For instance, you just said:

Quote:
Creatinve thinking and expanding on their hardware could definitely remedy these situations.

Not just more o' the same...


I... what? That's MEANINGLESS. And what the hell does hardware have to do with anything?

You may as well just say, "Well, what they really need to do is empower their interactive competency process while maximizing their environmental paradigm and preserving their support strategy for customer satisfaction parameters."

Throw in something about opening a kimono if you feel like that was insufficiently nonsensical.

Here's the thing about new PvE content:

1. It's not free to create. Like anything else, developmental resources need to be dedicated to it.
2. It has a shelf life that guarantees it will eventually turn stale.

Thus, the ROI on PvE content is quite low. Nobody runs missions because they're fun - they're in it for the loot. Nobody runs incursions because they're fun - they're in it for the loot. Nobody farms wormholes because it's fun, they're in it for the loot.

Promoting PvE as a "fix" is promoting the expenditure of limited resources on something that has declining value over time.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Maldam
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#498 - 2014-05-21 17:05:20 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Vivec Septim wrote:

Again, PvE is only dumb if no effort is made to keep it fresh. I've put some ideas forward which is more than just "PvE is dumb, it should be ignored/removed"


You don't seem to get it yet.

Shooting red crosses will never be "fresh". It will always be shooting red crosses, because the computing power needed to make their AI anything but the incredibly binary behavior it is now would be a massive drain on the game's servers.

Nevermind that CCP has tried updating their AI within their means before, and guess what? Players figured it out after a month, and then people like you cried for more.

Just. Like. Wow.

You want CCP to exist to create content for you to consume. The real EVE players, on the other hand, realize what a sandbox is, and are playing in one.



And all the while some veteran PVP players complain about how "shooting red crosses in PVE" is no challenge, they insist that it is the epitome of competition to gank helpless miners and low skilled new players.

Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#499 - 2014-05-21 17:13:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Quote:
they insist that it is the epitome of competition to gank helpless miners and low skilled new players.


Bigger ants eat the smaller ones, yup, everything's ok. A lot of smaller ones can eat bigger one, yup, can do. Be a helpless big bettle that is easy to spot and drag onto the dining table, for sure it's possible.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#500 - 2014-05-21 17:26:43 UTC
Maldam wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Vivec Septim wrote:

Again, PvE is only dumb if no effort is made to keep it fresh. I've put some ideas forward which is more than just "PvE is dumb, it should be ignored/removed"


You don't seem to get it yet.

Shooting red crosses will never be "fresh". It will always be shooting red crosses, because the computing power needed to make their AI anything but the incredibly binary behavior it is now would be a massive drain on the game's servers.

Nevermind that CCP has tried updating their AI within their means before, and guess what? Players figured it out after a month, and then people like you cried for more.

Just. Like. Wow.

You want CCP to exist to create content for you to consume. The real EVE players, on the other hand, realize what a sandbox is, and are playing in one.



And all the while some veteran PVP players complain about how "shooting red crosses in PVE" is no challenge, they insist that it is the epitome of competition to gank helpless miners and low skilled new players.



So what? Notice how I'm creating my own content, not asking CCP to throw money away to do it for me. That's what we're talking about here.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.