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[Kronos] Freighters and Jump Freighters Rebalance [Updated]

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Valterra Craven
#1881 - 2014-05-21 16:03:18 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
You aren't getting DCUs on a freighter.


My kingdom for a PDU instead?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1882 - 2014-05-21 16:03:50 UTC
Ammzi wrote:
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Can you, at least on the JF....maybe on the Freighter....put a little more wiggle room with the CPU to fit a DCU?

At least on the JF, which is extremely expensive! It should have ALOT more tanking abilities then it's T1 counterpart. With it's already smaller cargohold, players will be deciding to pick Cargohold expanders...which reduce tank, as we already know. Or go full tank and loose precious cargo space.

It's a good balance!


No - not unless hull is going to be cut by 60 %.
DC is way too overpowered on a freighter. You are already looking at very high ehp post kronos.


Well, unless you use cargo mods anyway.

Now the price to get your old cargo numbers back is a higher hitpoint loss than before, since cargo modules cost structure, where rigs cost armor.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#1883 - 2014-05-21 16:07:01 UTC
Ncc 1709 wrote:
you have started in the first post the use of capacitor power relays on jf's when they don't have enough cpu to fit one T2 one,
is there any reasoning behind this?



The Meta 4 cap relay has a base CPU requirement of 3.

This is reduced by energy Grid upgrades to 2.25 (if you have it at 5. 25% reduction)

All the JF have a CPU of 5. Which is increased to 6.25 by CPU Management 5.

So you'll be able to fit 2, no problem.

And if you want to get fancy, take a look at the Type E CPR. Which has a CPU requirement of 1. Now, it's only a 10% bonus, but it'll neatly drop into that space.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1884 - 2014-05-21 16:07:18 UTC
Hiryu Jin wrote:
so instead of a kick in the balls, we're supposed to be happy with a punch to face?

Yes.
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#1885 - 2014-05-21 16:08:02 UTC
Ammzi wrote:
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Can you, at least on the JF....maybe on the Freighter....put a little more wiggle room with the CPU to fit a DCU?

At least on the JF, which is extremely expensive! It should have ALOT more tanking abilities then it's T1 counterpart. With it's already smaller cargohold, players will be deciding to pick Cargohold expanders...which reduce tank, as we already know. Or go full tank and loose precious cargo space.

It's a good balance!


Ammzi wrote:
No - not unless hull is going to be cut by 60%
I never knew you were a Dev? (Only Devs can say no to something, not a player, get over yourself.)

Ammzi wrote:
DC is way too overpowered on a freighter. You are already looking at very high ehp post kronos.

I was reffering to the JF with a "Maybe" on the Freighter.

Simply because of the cost difference between the two ships and how easy it is to gank both of them.

...
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1886 - 2014-05-21 16:08:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Ammzi
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ammzi wrote:
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Can you, at least on the JF....maybe on the Freighter....put a little more wiggle room with the CPU to fit a DCU?

At least on the JF, which is extremely expensive! It should have ALOT more tanking abilities then it's T1 counterpart. With it's already smaller cargohold, players will be deciding to pick Cargohold expanders...which reduce tank, as we already know. Or go full tank and loose precious cargo space.

It's a good balance!


No - not unless hull is going to be cut by 60 %.
DC is way too overpowered on a freighter. You are already looking at very high ehp post kronos.


Well, unless you use cargo mods anyway.

Now the price to get your old cargo numbers back is a higher hitpoint loss than before, since cargo modules cost structure, where rigs cost armor.


So you'd like 1 DCU and 2 cargo expanders right? A magnificent one-touch double your EHP button and 800k cargo.
Why would any freighter fit anything else?

Azami Nevinyrall wrote:


Ammzi wrote:
No - not unless hull is going to be cut by 60%
I never knew you were a Dev? (Only Devs can say no to something, not a player, get over yourself.)





Really? I am just discussing with you, way to throw a tantrum.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1887 - 2014-05-21 16:10:35 UTC
Ammzi wrote:

So you'd like 1 DCU and 2 cargo expanders right? A magnificent one-touch double your EHP button and 800k cargo.
Why would any freighter fit anything else?


I've been vehemently arguing against giving freighters anymore CPU, because giving them a DCU would be rampantly overpowered. And I am rubbing my hands in glee thinking of the fools who will triple cargo rig these things and chop their hitpoints in half.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Dave Stark
#1888 - 2014-05-21 16:11:43 UTC
Hiryu Jin wrote:
so instead of a kick in the balls, we're supposed to be happy with a punch to face?

by popular demand, no less.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1889 - 2014-05-21 16:12:13 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Dramaticus wrote:

To survive in 0.0 you need two things. Supercaps(or friends with supercaps) and most importantly, logistics. Logistics into Providence is hella easy whereas someone living in Omist should just shoot themselves


That's true but again it's not beyond the wit of a large organisation to make it easier. But anyway CCP have decided to make it even worse by dumping on Jump Freighters and fuel.


It ain't true.
Been living in null for over a year and rarely see supercaps. Certainly don't need them.
JF and carriers however are very helpful and i wish i could fly a carrier Sad
No matter how many supers the others get they will never capture our npc stations.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#1890 - 2014-05-21 16:12:44 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ammzi wrote:

So you'd like 1 DCU and 2 cargo expanders right? A magnificent one-touch double your EHP button and 800k cargo.
Why would any freighter fit anything else?


I've been vehemently arguing against giving freighters anymore CPU, because giving them a DCU would be rampantly overpowered. And I am rubbing my hands in glee thinking of the fools who will triple cargo rig these things and chop their hitpoints in half.

99% of players will do this, just so they don't have to do as much runs....which means ganks will increase, and so will the tears!

...
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#1891 - 2014-05-21 16:14:18 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
Gregor Parud[ wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:
Then explain why Null was just as empty from 2005-2007 when power projection didn't exist.



Gregor Parud wrote:
Frankly, it's rather embarrassing I even have to explain it to you.


Valterra Craven wrote:
Charts without proper interpretation are meaningless. You would need to compare the ratio of total players active at any given time to players that live primarily in null and then those that lived other places. I bet the ratios are the same now as they were then.



Given that we have more subs and a much higher PCU while "it's just as empty at it was back then", as you put it, the logical conclusion is that it's not what you think/hope it is.


Well like I said, I haven't been to 0.0 since 2008. I still bet with PROPER study the ratios would be nearly the same.


So what you're saying is "I made **** up, I haven't even seen it first hand AND I can't use and apply basic logic", duly noted.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1892 - 2014-05-21 16:14:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Ok, new tables:

• New alignment times depending on base and a more balanced fit (red = worse than Rubicon, Green = better than rubicon).

• The full gamut of Tank vs. Cargo (red = worse than both base and Rubicon stats; yellow = better than Rubicon, worse than base; blue = better than base, worse than Rubicon; green = better than both).

I haven't really done any other combos because the other sensible modules (CPR, istab, hacc) either have no effect at all or no effect that freighter pilots care about.

tl;dr: the only ones who have anything to complain about anything anymore are gankers…
Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises
Goonswarm Federation
#1893 - 2014-05-21 16:14:57 UTC
CCP best troll, I am just laughing at all the people that bought all that salvage to make T1 & T2 capital cargo rigs & now they are no longer needed.Evil

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1894 - 2014-05-21 16:15:17 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ammzi wrote:

So you'd like 1 DCU and 2 cargo expanders right? A magnificent one-touch double your EHP button and 800k cargo.
Why would any freighter fit anything else?


I've been vehemently arguing against giving freighters anymore CPU, because giving them a DCU would be rampantly overpowered. And I am rubbing my hands in glee thinking of the fools who will triple cargo rig these things and chop their hitpoints in half.

99% of players will do this, just so they don't have to do as much runs....which means ganks will increase, and so will the tears!


There's no need to protect the ~lesser intelligent~ against their own mistakes.
They will learn in time, and if they don't that's their problem. It's EVE afterall.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#1895 - 2014-05-21 16:15:18 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:


Ammzi wrote:
No - not unless hull is going to be cut by 60%
I never knew you were a Dev? (Only Devs can say no to something, not a player, get over yourself.)



and whos the pompous snout who thinks they're too good to take the feedback of their peers?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
XxRTEKxX
256th Shadow Wing
Phantom-Recon
#1896 - 2014-05-21 16:15:23 UTC
This new change sounds much better than the last proposal.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1897 - 2014-05-21 16:15:49 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Ammzi wrote:
No - not unless hull is going to be cut by 60%
I never knew you were a Dev? (Only Devs can say no to something, not a player, get over yourself.)
This is a public thread for players to discuss amomngst others. Suck it up.

Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Ammzi wrote:
DC is way too overpowered on a freighter. You are already looking at very high ehp post kronos.

I was reffering to the JF with a "Maybe" on the Freighter.

Simply because of the cost difference between the two ships and how easy it is to gank both of them.
Thats a terrible reason why. More money does not necessarily mean more safety. You spend more money for the jump drive and a bit of extra tank. There is no reason to ask to almost double your HP on top of that.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#1898 - 2014-05-21 16:16:32 UTC
Lyn Fel wrote:
Just trained Astronautics Rigging IV on 6 characters... Can I has my SP back? Lol


As soon as I get High Energy Physics IV sp refunded.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1899 - 2014-05-21 16:19:27 UTC
anyone know what the align speed on a fenrir with 3 inertia stabilizers is?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1900 - 2014-05-21 16:22:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Rowells wrote:
anyone know what the align speed on a fenrir with 3 inertia stabilizers is?

~21 seconds at all V. About the same as a current max-skilled Nomad(!)