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[Kronos] Freighters and Jump Freighters Rebalance [Updated]

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1841 - 2014-05-21 15:31:22 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Dramaticus wrote:

To survive in 0.0 you need two things. Supercaps(or friends with supercaps) and most importantly, logistics. Logistics into Providence is hella easy whereas someone living in Omist should just shoot themselves


That's true but again it's not beyond the wit of a large organisation to make it easier. But anyway CCP have decided to make it even worse by dumping on Jump Freighters and fuel.


Yeah, because they're really overpowered at present.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#1842 - 2014-05-21 15:32:39 UTC
Allison A'vani wrote:
Bad Bobby wrote:
Allison A'vani wrote:
This also saves me a good 3 - 4B as I will not have to replace my High Grade Ascendancy implants with High Grade Nomads.

I think those High Grade Nomads would have cost you a lot more than 3-4B.



Probably, I was using pre-speculation costs.

Market speculation on high grade nomads would be pretty difficult to achieve.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1843 - 2014-05-21 15:33:24 UTC
will the new jump fuel modules be limited to jump freighters only?
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#1844 - 2014-05-21 15:33:38 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

What you want is a Jump Freighter to not be able to die to catalysts, you said it yourself. You think it's unfair because catalysts are cheaper. You're wrong, what you want is for you to never die because your ship is more expensive. Not only is your cowardice disgusting and your entitlement repulsive, but it's also contrary to any concept of ship balance and one of the most harmful things possible to new players.

You can try to muddle the issue, but you will fail.


No, no Goonie, I didn't say I didn't want a load of catalysts to be able to kill my Jump Freighter. I definitely did not say that. If I remember correctly and I could be wrong because I wrote it ages ago (like 10 minutes or something) and that's a very long time, was that this 6 billion isk ship should have much better defensive capabilities than it does at present and that it should not die to a relatively small number of very low skilled Goon alts in Catalysts, hence fitting a DCII is not unreasonable.

I think if you read back that is in fact what I said. And you do realise that when you talk about "new players" what you mean is the brand new high-sec ganking alt some bitter-vet just spawned, don't you?

Terrible.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1845 - 2014-05-21 15:34:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Holy hell, those base EHP values… Shocked
Yeah, gankers will really have to hope that people go hog wild with the expanders.

Bad Bobby wrote:
Market speculation on high grade nomads would be pretty difficult to achieve.

It's just a matter of throwing enough ISK on the problem. P
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1846 - 2014-05-21 15:34:47 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
More information about these modules can be found here.

Appreciated, thanks. As for the stacking penalization for hyperspacial rigs in Kronos - is this proceeding?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#1847 - 2014-05-21 15:36:14 UTC
you have started in the first post the use of capacitor power relays on jf's when they don't have enough cpu to fit one T2 one,
is there any reasoning behind this?
Valterra Craven
#1848 - 2014-05-21 15:36:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Valterra Craven
CCP Fozzie wrote:


I won't rule it out.


Have you ruled out a role bonus so that PDU's can be fitted so that shield based freighters can have at least one mod they can use to tank to put them on parity with armor based freighters?

Even a t2 PDU is only a little more than half what a t2 resistance plate does... I don't see how the cap recharge, or cap bonuses affect anything (might benefit armor ships too) and giving a ship with 3 grid a 15% bonus should still be just 3 grid with rounding. That only leaves shield regen and well I don't think that matters too much in any situation these ships would be under fire...

So that's +15% to shield HP (if you fit three) while the Layered Platting t2 can get armor up to 24%...
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1849 - 2014-05-21 15:37:06 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
More information about these modules can be found here.

Appreciated, thanks. As for the stacking penalization for hyperspacial rigs in Kronos - is this proceeding?


Yes. If anything had changed we would have updated the appropriate thread.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1850 - 2014-05-21 15:37:35 UTC
Tippia wrote:
...gankers will really have to hope that people go hog wild with the expanders.


People almost always do.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1851 - 2014-05-21 15:40:54 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:

No, no Goonie, I didn't say I didn't want a load of catalysts to be able to kill my Jump Freighter. I definitely did not say that. If I remember correctly and I could be wrong because I wrote it ages ago (like 10 minutes or something) and that's a very long time, was that this 6 billion isk ship should have much better defensive capabilities than it does at present and that it should not die to a relatively small number of very low skilled Goon alts in Catalysts, hence fitting a DCII is not unreasonable.

I think if you read back that is in fact what I said. And you do realise that when you talk about "new players" what you mean is the brand new high-sec ganking alt some bitter-vet just spawned, don't you?

Terrible.


I love how you think I'm a Goon. It shows a lot of your mentality if you don't think it's possible anyone can disagree with you in honesty.

No, by the way. That non combat ship should not have better defenses, and you should not be immune to the actions of a whole bunch of people just because your ship costs more than their ships. Asking to double your tank for a 1 million isk module is not reasonable.

What you're asking for is to have new players handcuffed by pricetags just because your entitlement tells you that you should never have to die.

Pathetic.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#1852 - 2014-05-21 15:41:50 UTC
just realised the amount of shield and armour tanks given and with the low slots naturally giving resistance options to the provi and obe, the fenrir is looking hard done to.

- add 2 CPU to resistance plating?
- speed buff? capacity buff to obe level?
- low slot shield mods that can only be fit to freighters?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Angelina Duvolle
Homeworld Technologies
#1853 - 2014-05-21 15:42:52 UTC
I've been pretty critical of the original changes, and to be honest did not believe they would be revised in this manner.

I appreciate Fozzie being willing to take a second look at this, and the CSM for working on it with him.
Mynnna gets a gold star imho.

My biggest complaint was the cost restricting customization, and lack of useful rigs These changes do a good job of sorting those issues.

Fozzy; Are CPR cpu requirements going to be lowered? Any chance of a role reduction for pds's for the shield freighters?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1854 - 2014-05-21 15:42:52 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
just realised the amount of shield and armour tanks given and with the low slots naturally giving resistance options to the provi and obe, the fenrir is looking hard done to.

- add 2 CPU to resistance plating?
- speed buff? capacity buff to obe level?
- low slot shield mods that can only be fit to freighters?


I agree here. The Fenrir is the clear loser here, and the Providence the clear winner.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Valterra Craven
#1855 - 2014-05-21 15:43:48 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:

- low slot shield mods that can only be fit to freighters?


PDU!!!!!!
Stalence
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#1856 - 2014-05-21 15:45:06 UTC
I think the change from rigs to low slots are an incredibly positive one that actually allows for interesting gameplay rather than set-it and forget it for your most common use case.

My only caution is that this also sounds like it heavily favors the armor-based hulls over the shield-based hulls. I've seen some discussion already about this but haven't run any numbers myself. I just hope the issue doesn't get lost in the noise and that the final EHP are either relatively balanced or that less EHP results in some other gain like slightly more cargo space?

Member of #tweetfleet @stalence // Templis CALSF // YouTube Channel
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#1857 - 2014-05-21 15:45:53 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:

- low slot shield mods that can only be fit to freighters?


PDU!!!!!!


if thats a power dag, then cpu may be a bit of an issue...

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#1858 - 2014-05-21 15:46:37 UTC
Now, we're talking, Fozzie.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
#1859 - 2014-05-21 15:48:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Aureus Ahishatsu
So after doing some more excel fun.... It looks pretty good. with 2 t2 expanded cargoholds and a t2 bulkhead you can get pretty sufficient cargo with a decent tank. My only real concern is what has been stated before with the slight imbalance given to the two armored ships vs shield tanks. I wouldn't expect them to be equal but given the set up i just listed for example the fenrir and charon are sitting in the 124 - 135 ehp while the providence is somewhere in the 165-180 ehp and the still tanky obelisk is in the 170 - 185 range. 40k ehp seems like a rather large gap especially when you consider this gap is only amplified after skills are taken into consideration.

Again let me reiterate before Tippia comes in throwing her DA card, not looking for them to be equal but at the current set up i see the price in provies and especially obe's going up. You'll be able to get a provi with significanly more tank and the same size cargo as the fenrir for a rather miniscule reduction in speed, and the obe instead of the charon with a HUGE increase in tank, mild increase in speed with a very slight reduction in capacity (5000m3). not the worst thing but i see these two ships becoming more in demand. i mean have you seen the ehp of the new obe with 3 bulkheads??? 200 + ehp before even taking skills into account holy hell!
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#1860 - 2014-05-21 15:48:35 UTC
And this is why at the end of the day Fozzie is a hero :D

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