Wormholes

Uh top kek meights.

Fact is that shield dreads are better in all scenarios. They have higher burst tank and higher dps which is literally all that ever matters. If you need to hit subcaps, you just ******* REFIT MID COMBAT like any sane person. You can talk all you want about comparing armor fits that have 4 slots of tank vs shield fits with 4 slots of tank but that's always irrelevant because shield fits can actually use a full tank setup whereas armor fits can't, unless you want to lose all of your lows (and even then, as I have said, they're still ******* worse).

Armor fits have no advantage ever over shield fits. They waste two slots for unrefittable modules instead of just one, they have significantly lower (and when I say significantly, I mean on the order of 50k dps tanked) burst tank (and when I said burst i really mean 5 minutes of sustained tank), and their mid slots are absolutely ******* useless for dread v dread fights.

I'll reconsider when speed tanked dreads becomes a thing and TC's are useful in dread v dread fights.

Fact is if you fight armor dreads v shield dreads the armor dreads will get rekt 100% of the time. If you think otherwise then continue being ignorant and we can all laugh when you get destroyed by any modern dread fleet.

Also, bringing cost into this is stupid because frankly cost never has been, is not, and will never be a balancing factor. If you care about cost when you're flying multi-billion isk dread fits then you're a bloody pansy and shouldn't be flying a dread in the first place.

Certainly don't need 3 shield boost amps, though not going to hurt. I was merely pointing out that you were measuring a 4 slot armor tank against a 3 slot shield tank. 2 reps + 2 enams vs 1 rep + 2 invuls in your example above somewhere. You evened out the cost which I like, but what about adding a shield boost amp of equal value to your extra repper.

Except that actually having twice as many hitpoints is a pretty big advantage. And if you go read what I wrote on page 2, you'll see a situation where an armour dread has a very large advantage, that being blapping subcaps while still having any amount of tank.

You are correct that shield dreads are better than armour dreads for most PvP situations, but not in 100% of situations and the armour dreads are not useless, merely different. That's all I'm saying.

Yes, first of all there is the fact that you'll pretty much never be in a scenario where you won't be able to rep long enough for your net ehp to be higher than that of an armor dread with slaves.

Plus, I mean I hope you realize that a nag with 3 overloaded c-type invuls + links + DCU + anti-em rig has ~3.2 mil ehp. An armor moros with a DCU, 2 b-type enams, two t1 trimarks, full HG slaves and armor links has about 3.5 mil ehp.

I mean if you go full ******* autist and put on a-type enams, a reactive, an x-type exp, 3 t2 trimarks, and overload, you can get like 6 mil ehp, and potentially more if you decide to figure out the most optimal resist setup. But fact is that you can do the same on the shield fit as well. They're very comparable in terms of ehp.

If you decide to go full autist on the shield fit, just like the armor fit, you could have 3x CDFE's fit, put 5x CN PDU's, and refit to only hardeners and have like 10.5 mil ehp.

If people cared about buffer setups, shield buffer setups would still be better. The reason nobody does this is because the active burst tank shield dread fits are the superior way to survive in dread fights.

Ok so they're basically the same except that the nag actually is doing dps the whole time. Good to know

This is what I see:

Nag: http://puu.sh/8UU6H.png

Rev: http://puu.sh/8UU7y.png

If you put two neut legions on each, the nag's cap lasts 2m 51s, the rev's cap lasts 3m 10s. Seems to me like the nag does twice the dps, has the same capacitor survivability, and tanks 33k more dps. It also doesn't require a specialized clone. Cost wise they're the same, see the eft price estimate, 5.3bil + 2bil for slaves vs 7 bil. Though like I said, that's p much irrelevant.

Edit: It's also worth noting that the Nag overheats longer, and if you decide not to overheat the shield booster, it still tanks 81,407 dps, the invuls now overheat for 3m 24s each (compared to 1m 36s for the rev when it's fully overheating, or ~3 minutes without overheating the reps , but dropping to 50k tank at that point), and it's cap life improves to 3m 13s under legion neuts.

If cap life is a must, then the nag can refit the rest of the gyros to PDU's as well and have 4m 5s of cap life with 81, 257 tank with overloaded invuls, while still doing more dps than the rev (7024 dps), wherease the rev's best cap life is 3m 34s with it's reps not overloaded, again having 50k tank at that point for 3 minutes of overheat time.

Oh yea and this isn't taking into the account that shield tanks can do nifty things like fitting all resist mods till they're almost out of shield and then fitting some resist mods back to boost amps, boosting to full, and then refitting resist mods to maximize the capacitor efficiency of the tank, of course only in scenarios where you're taking less dps than you can tank at max.

And while not a fault of shield vs armor tanks, the rev has **** damage types.

I see no redeeming factors for armor tanking dreads whatsoever. Armor is ****.

I hate the fact you now decide to tell me that armor sucks in pvp dreads. I've just finished training capital armor reps V on my alts.

Awesome! So you used more expensive fits and drugs to get to the same conclusion I did; that dreads should never die in wormholes unless all the carriers are dead or you've been seeded.

As for the damage... it looks like EM/Therm are the weakest resistances on your Naglfar fit there. It's not quite as bad as you make out huh?


It looks basically the same. You gain tracking but lose damage and so nothing really changes.

The numbers i used above with total eHP before death on the two DID in fact take into consideration the fact that Nags can refit for armour. The lack of lows makes the hull tank on a Nag pretty bad, and the lack of armour HP makes any armour tank it can field pretty bad also. HERE's the table I used to compile the numbers.

Except it can...? Have you read the thread, or are you a seagull poster?

I'd say pheonix is viable .... tanks 3 dreads for 4 minutes (permaboosting) while laughing without overheating or blue pill while dealing 6k dps .... but yes guys if you only go for tank, I'd place mybids on the pheonix :)

For PvP well......... i prefer a dread which can't be undertracked by orbiting at 500,if you only have 1-2 dreads this can happen to Nag, Rev & Moros

But hey, i'd say if you can't agree an opinion, fight for it

It sounds like you all need some Capital Hyperspatial T2 rigs... Selling Cheap XD