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[Kronos] Freighters and Jump Freighters Rebalance [Updated]

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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1641 - 2014-05-20 22:13:20 UTC
Ladies and gentlemen this is your nightly message to let you know that I've caught up to this point in the thread and that we still have not forgotten about you. Big smile

There's a version two of the design currently posted for the CSM in their internal forums, they've responded largely positively so far. I'm going to let them think about it overnight and if all looks good we'll post the proposal for public feedback tomorrow.

Thanks as always!

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Mag's
Azn Empire
#1642 - 2014-05-20 22:14:39 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Mag's wrote:
No not really. Tippia is his usual logical self. Whereas Valterra is, well, highly illogical and prone to large memory lapses as well as complete removal from reality in one instance.

I think he might be referring to our appearance, except that Valterra is a beat-up old Civire who can't even dress herself properly and who lacks my fabulous ass. Blink
I don't see the resemblance in that regard at all either.

But yes, you do have a fine ass. Lol

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1643 - 2014-05-20 22:15:01 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen this is your nightly message to let you know that I've caught up to this point in the thread and that we still have not forgotten about you. Big smile

There's a version two of the design currently posted for the CSM in their internal forums, they've responded largely positively so far. I'm going to let them think about it overnight and if all looks good we'll post the proposal for public feedback tomorrow.

Thanks as always!

\o/ Free puppies for everyone?
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#1644 - 2014-05-20 22:17:47 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen this is your nightly message to let you know that I've caught up to this point in the thread and that we still have not forgotten about you. Big smile

There's a version two of the design currently posted for the CSM in their internal forums, they've responded largely positively so far. I'm going to let them think about it overnight and if all looks good we'll post the proposal for public feedback tomorrow.

Thanks as always!


*smells cake that will be eaten too*

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#1645 - 2014-05-20 22:19:53 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen this is your nightly message to let you know that I've caught up to this point in the thread and that we still have not forgotten about you. Big smile

There's a version two of the design currently posted for the CSM in their internal forums, they've responded largely positively so far. I'm going to let them think about it overnight and if all looks good we'll post the proposal for public feedback tomorrow.

Thanks as always!


*smells cake that will be eaten too*

Prepare for crow.

The great thing about being a pessimist is never being disappointed.
Lyn Fel
Black Frog Logistics
Red-Frog
#1646 - 2014-05-20 22:23:41 UTC
In before everyone freaks out about having spent billions on rigs they can't use.
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
#1647 - 2014-05-20 22:35:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Patri Andari
Mag's wrote:
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:
You do realize I added an edit before you posted right?

You do realise that it makes no difference, right?
And you do realise that what I quoted was what was in your post at the time, right?

Again, you made a mistake. Live with it.


What was the mistake?


HHm, you two share a striking resemblance to eachother :)
No not really. Tippia is his usual logical self. Whereas Valterra is, well, highly illogical and prone to large memory lapses as well as complete removal from reality in one instance.


You realize calling the Tippia "logical" makes you quite suspect, right? He/She is, at best, opportunistic and most often a trolololl.

Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown
Axe Coldon
#1648 - 2014-05-20 22:38:53 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen this is your nightly message to let you know that I've caught up to this point in the thread and that we still have not forgotten about you. Big smile

There's a version two of the design currently posted for the CSM in their internal forums, they've responded largely positively so far. I'm going to let them think about it overnight and if all looks good we'll post the proposal for public feedback tomorrow.

Thanks as always!


YEAH! Wondering if I will get to use my 6 T2 Capital Cargo rigs or not? Oh the suspense!

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1649 - 2014-05-20 22:40:45 UTC
Lyn Fel wrote:
In before everyone freaks out about having spent billions on rigs they can't use.


I'm waiting for full fittings and the nerfs that go with it.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1650 - 2014-05-20 22:42:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
baltec1 wrote:
Lyn Fel wrote:
In before everyone freaks out about having spent billions on rigs they can't use.

I'm waiting for full fittings and the nerfs that go with it.

Attempt #2: Only highslots. 6 of them! P
Role bonus: may launch bombs in highsec.
Yuri Fedorov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1651 - 2014-05-20 22:44:29 UTC
Tippia wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Lyn Fel wrote:
In before everyone freaks out about having spent billions on rigs they can't use.

I'm waiting for full fittings and the nerfs that go with it.

Attempt #2: Only highslots. 6 of them! P
Role bonus: may launch bombs in highsec.


I am ready to gank catalysts with a freighter.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1652 - 2014-05-20 22:45:27 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen this is your nightly message to let you know that I've caught up to this point in the thread and that we still have not forgotten about you. Big smile

There's a version two of the design currently posted for the CSM in their internal forums, they've responded largely positively so far. I'm going to let them think about it overnight and if all looks good we'll post the proposal for public feedback tomorrow.

Thanks as always!


This will be interesting.

Now we get to see if CCP caves to crying, or not.

Either way, this thread demonstrates an abject lesson of "be careful what you wish for."

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#1653 - 2014-05-20 22:57:40 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen this is your nightly message to let you know that I've caught up to this point in the thread and that we still have not forgotten about you. Big smile

There's a version two of the design currently posted for the CSM in their internal forums, they've responded largely positively so far. I'm going to let them think about it overnight and if all looks good we'll post the proposal for public feedback tomorrow.

Thanks as always!

Fozzie, I must admit that I'm struggling to come up with any concrete feedback on version 1, because the proposals are terrible, root and branch.

Freighters and JF's are terrible ships to fly already, but they serve their single purpose well enough to make them indispensable in certain situations. I don't understand what is the rush to make them even more terrible to fly. What exactly are you trying to do?

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1654 - 2014-05-20 23:13:32 UTC
so....
I would guess they are going with changing the calibration (either of the ship or the rigs) so that 3 cargo rigs can't be used. Then they can increase the base cargo a bit and the end result is that everyone fits 1-2 cargo and 1-2 "other" rigs. We get some customisation and everyone that already bought rigs/ started building them stays happy.
Of all the pages of crying i think that was the only helpful idea that both kept rigs , allowed choice and stopped cargoholds from getting too large.
anyway keep up the entertainment guys.
o7

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Valterra Craven
#1655 - 2014-05-20 23:17:55 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:
No Yes, it appears the problem is that I assumed you were working under your old proposal
In other words, you assumed that CPU and grid was in any way a problem because you failed to read and thus didn't notice that we're talking about a completely different scenario. I fixed your post, by the way.

So yes, you made a mistake. Live with it.


Man for someone that claims they don't bite you sure don't act like it. Also its not COMPLETELY different since your original proposal was arguing for low slots, the one you started posting about recently is only a modification of that to add fittings to able to fit certain things.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1656 - 2014-05-20 23:22:58 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
Man for someone that claims they don't bite you sure don't act like it.
It's because you never honestly ask for information.

Quote:
Also its not COMPLETELY [yadda yadda]
You made a mistake. Live with it. Also, take the opportunity to learn to read posts rather than assume what will be in them and act on the strawman you just erected.
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate
#1657 - 2014-05-20 23:30:44 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Quote:
So can we all agree just to tell CCP don't push this update and leave the freighters alone? Big smile
Yes. Although I'm warming up to the lowslot idea…

bad tippia.
no. no low slots.


Don't fear the lowslots Dave. They too will come at a cost and we'll get another hundred pages of tears from people who can't do the math. Probably a pretty severe nerf to base stats. But the level of real flexibility should vastly outweigh changes to the base stats. Far more so than all this BS related to a discussion about rigs alone.

At some point these ships have to come into the same realm as all other ships in the game. Either leave them alone (change is bad) or rebalance them from the ground up.


i honestly don't think freighters need touching. they do what they were intended to do fine, the variation between races is good. there's no need to give them fittings, of any kind.

they're probably the most well balanced ship class we have in eve in their current state. they don't need flexibility, they have one job; they move junk from A to B. a job that they do remarkably well.


I don't discount any of that. I really don't. But IF they are going to go down the rabbit hole and allow rigs of all things, then at least perform a full review and make a final decision. This entire process seems very short-sighted and rushed
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate
#1658 - 2014-05-20 23:34:30 UTC
Ramona Quimby wrote:
Unsub three accounts.

Freighters could easily be buffed tank wise 3 to 10 times in EHP, just to keep up with how easy it has become to kill them.

Instead they're being nerfed to please Goons and Gankers.

Stop nerfing hi-sec and buffing null-sec.

Instead: Buff hi-sec, nerf null-sec, and ban null-sec players from CSM, only hi-sec and low-sec should matter. Nerf-null.


Really should be a new forum rule: say you will unsub 3 times anywhere on the forums and CCP makes it happen

Candyman, Candyman, Can...
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#1659 - 2014-05-20 23:38:23 UTC
that i would like

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate
#1660 - 2014-05-20 23:42:01 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen this is your nightly message to let you know that I've caught up to this point in the thread and that we still have not forgotten about you. Big smile

There's a version two of the design currently posted for the CSM in their internal forums, they've responded largely positively so far. I'm going to let them think about it overnight and if all looks good we'll post the proposal for public feedback tomorrow.

Thanks as always!


Fozzie, can you confirm:

Word on the street, actually in the alley behind the street, is that there will be 1 high, mid and low slot offered along with rigs and the current nerf tp base stats. However, as a give back to Jump Freighters, which will still lose some cargo cap due to only having two rigs, they will be getting the ability to use covert ops cloaking devices.

Is my dream of a cloaky freighter really coming true?