Player Features and Ideas Discussion

They'd need a 10+ man corporation which is fairly :effort: intensive if they decide to spend the isk and the alt slots then they climbed the wall of course CCP can use whatever metrics they decide to adjust the number if its to low. Also in the context of my example the newbie mercenary corporation could try to wardec that alt corporation which along with some chest beating would help mitigate any trolling the alt corp did as well as provide evidence against/for the troll alt corps claims. From my own experience with :effort: its very limiting and my suggestion is just one part of the solution. The idea isn't a silver bullet and more will probably need to be done to solve the problem in its entirety.

How would you empower ISD? What sort of abilities could you foresee us having while making sure we aren't heavy handed with our moderation?

So you are echoing what Tyberius Franklin already raised as a concern, that this would have false positives and get some mains. I see the issue of false positives much like margin's of safety, sure we'll get the 1% of mains that choose to remain in NPC corporations which is unfortunate but the quality increase and good accomplished is worth it because we clean out 99% of the trolling garbage. Over time we can use incremental change like you suggested to polish the method so the mains do not get caught.

I'm not against incremental change if you read my post I agreed with you that empowering ISDs could be another part of the solution.

Now we're getting somewhere. This is the core issue: there is too little which can be done on forum. Whatever this guy does in the game is completely irrelevant and THIS is why it shouldn't be basis of selection whether he can post on forums or not. Thus I suggest to spend time and effort trying to find a solution here, as close to the problem as possible.


Did I read you right? You want to set 10+ man corp bar for every forum except a few selected? But sir, this is forcing a certain style of playing the game. What with those folks which are genuinely not interested in interacting with others? What about small corps holding just a handful of friends? They are still legal ways of playing the game. Why do you want to deprive them from voice?

Your own experience comes from rather special case (they all are, aren't they?). I would be very cautious with extrapolating, esp. when it comes to people.

Are we really back to arguing over whether the forums are part of the game or not? The EVE Gate / EVE Online Forums directly links to your account and the game. It is not accessible without paying a subscription and logging into your specific character therefore its part of the game and in game player driven actions should be an option. This allows for free expression and content creation while improving the quality of the forums.

No play style is being forced on anyone the soloist can still be a soloist and their voice is not being taken from them they can still read and post. There is nothing preventing people from joining a small corporation and only using that corporation channel as a chat room.

You are being hyberbolic now this is not scorched earth its more of a "no peeing in the pool the restrooms are literally right next to it in the locker room." People can do things to the giant alt corp and where there is any gathering of players there are bound to be things that can be messed with. Good things could come of it too, those people in that alt corp could make friends and decide they want it to make something of it. It could be the spark that starts some amazing content.

The gag is more of a 24 hour account wide forum ban.

Back? I never left it! I can read and write posts on forum without my client running. Q.E.D.

Funny, I just looked and it seems requirement of having active subscription, and using it for authentication and presence, is about the only link with the game. Check forum TOS yourself if you don't believe me.

And no, proposing a feeble workaround for a draconian solution does not constitute not forcing.

Raising the bar above simply being in a player corp to being in a populated one is actually even more concerning. At that point we're excluding legitimate solo and very small player corps on top of NPC corps. This actually would work to further devalue player corps on it's own.

It also has the potential to enhance the issue of separation from consequence. At 10+ accounts required, I don't have the option of placing my main in a player corp to gain access to the boards without also incurring yet another disadvantage of being in a player corp with other players. I could benefit from the 11% increase in earnings from moving to a player corp, but there is nothing I do in game which necessitates or even benefits from giving others the ability to engage me without consequence. Especially not when there are players who prey upon that vulnerability.

The workaround to this becomes co-oping to form dedicated posting corps, corps literally developed around posting alts. Increasing their numbers becomes priority rather than ensuring quality as it's in everyone's benefit to have the population needed to post regardless of intent. These would become the new "NPC corps" of the forums. Further, they would demonstrate the most complete disconnect from consequence that any group of characters has, more so than the current NPC corp posters since none of them will have any obligation by consequence to post responsibly.

I don't think its much of a stretch to say that one-man tax evasion corporations are basically the same thing as NPC corporations sans the chat channel. They are still fairly untouchable because at the sign of any aggression they can dissolve the corporation. The smaller corporations full of unique accounts instead of alts, discounting multiboxing, is of concern but, I stand by that you're doing more good than harm. You're removing 99% of the garbage while only getting 1% of the good. It sounds like more of the same, player corporations need compelling advantages over NPC corporations which I agree with. It also hits that consensual aggression needs some sort of cost.

Like I mentioned before about the legion of posting alts, that hasn't occurred in significance similar to the NPC troll alt problem in CAOD. Also when you get a group of people congregating there's bound to be problems that arise, ego's that don't quite fit, a group of people that wants to play the game instead of troll all day long, someone there to awox, someone there to steal, someone there to press the disband button, etc. I see it more as a potential spark for content creation.

Bear with me whilst I experiment with a new posting format (someone was whittering earlier about walls o'text).

In amongst these objections, please consider:

Eve is a game with meaningful consequences for actions, including what you say
The forums are part of the metagame. Threats, propaganda, exposing various types of behaviour all have an impact on certain types of player. The use of NPC posting alts should be considered an exploit which bypasses consequence. Bear in mind we've had a recent expansion commited to retribution and player generated consequences.

Realistically, large entities would struggle to censor everyone
Seriously Goons are really unlikely to dec and harass every individual that contradicts or takes the mickey out of their members on the forum. Stop whipping out this hysterical nonsense. They are likely to go after people who consistently harass them. So what? Those who post from our mains accept these risks and have to deal with the consequences ingame (primarily being excluded from certain organisations which restrict forum interraction). I don't see why some of us should be subject to more consequence than others who are simply exploiting mechanics that were not intended to be used this way.

Stop banging on about censorship
Some alliances and corps already gag their members. Again, a mechanic is being exploited, this time by those bypassing player made restrictions.

Restrict forum posting to one character per player
Something no-one seems to be in support of, but I'm starting to lean towards. CCP have been asking people to link their accounts via email/RL info, there's no reason they can't ask us to select one character across all our accounts to be authorised to post on the forums. Character bazaar being the only exception for sellers. I know this can be bypassed with false info and multiple email addresses, and I know it would kill certain types of meta. Not sure I care, there are plenty of player run forums people can mask their identity on.

Notice here I'm not targeting new players or those whose mains reside in NPC corps. But anyway, I've never really been all that infuriated by NPC corps. All this thread has done is shift me towards a more extreme stance. Just get rid of NPC corps at the first possible opportunity. They're nothing but hassle. If people want to chat whilst they solo grind level 4s or mine, give them a search function for player channels which are open to all. We've been told by CCP over and over, nowhere in space is safe with regards complaints about ganking, scamming and wardecs. Why on earth should any corp have all these advantages over the rest of us?

ISD powers
You need more tools to monitor repeat offenders, and the ability to issue warnings followed by shorter gags. I think prevention and moderate penalties which stack up are fairer than the current system where the first gag is 14 days, which seems more about punishment. Rehabilitation should be the goal :P If that's going to need more manpower to monitor, CCL needs more help from Devs and IA. I'm not sure why ISDs with moderation powers would necessarily be any more heavy handed than the Devs/GMs are already, but clearly people should have the option of appeal.