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Crime & Punishment

 
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Noir. [Est. 2008]

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Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
#401 - 2014-05-16 17:48:36 UTC
An open question for Alex:

Has Noir learned any lessons from this and are you making any changes to your standard operating procedure for the acceptance of multiple non-exclusive contracts, to ensure future dramas and misunderstanding dont take place? Or are you simply writing it off as a scamming client and moving on?

Disclaimer: While a reader of Gevlons blog I happen to think hes made an error by spitting his dummy out over this. Quite simply hes deprived himself of one of the most effective merc groups in eve. Yes he was angry, yes I would have been grinding my teeth too, but I would have responded by changing how I worded my contracts seeing as how you played me(him in this case). I would have paid that 2 bill. Hes not a scammer though hes an angry customer and we get that all the time in work irl.

To help make the answer easier/clearer let me put this to you: its 12 months down the line and I ask you for help fighting a pve corp called lets say "the carebear menace (care)". I want you to take their pococs in 12 systems and hold them for a month so I can gut their pi with 99% taxes. For the sake of numbers we agree I pay you 5billion upfront and 2 billion a week (for example). Options to continue the contract implied but not in writing.

Meanwhile Care have written you a letter: "noir please can we hire you to kill this nasty ganker tarojan. shes paid marmite to shut us out of jita and she keeps ganking our mission runners! we want you to make her stop and to kill her for us. can you use ecm to disrupt her ganks? we will pay you 2 million isk for every commerant you kill her in, 100 mil isk for her feroxs and if you pod her we will pay you double the value of the pod and implants! please help."

Now these arent conflicting missions right? you can still take those pocos while podding me and messing up my game and you wouldn't have broken the contract. Nor would CARE be able to complain right? I mean they might squeal betrayal, but you would have my pod kill mails as proof that they are just scamming you... right?

Forget the past thats done. In future would Noir tell both me AND "CARE" about the contracts before taking our money/implementing the service?

Will gank for food
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#402 - 2014-05-19 01:12:36 UTC
I'm inclined to say Goblin is just the nasty exception. He's the only repeat customer we've had scam like that. I don't think there's any policy change we could implement that would have changed the outcome there, aside from not accepting any ppk stuff at all. Maybe that will have to be the case going forward, but for now I'm thinking we just be much more selective in who we do business with and move on.

I want to answer your hypothetical, but first should point out the obvious that it bears little relation to the situation with Goblin.

The short answer is we would not take that contract against you. We don't accept concurrent contracts from current targets nor contracts against our current employer, nor do contracts for so little isk ;p Goblin would like to believe otherwise of course but that's unchanged from when we've opened the doors.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Dub Step
Death To Everyone But Us
#403 - 2014-05-19 02:30:42 UTC
Big props to Noir and Aleks in particular for keeping it classy ♥
Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#404 - 2014-05-19 09:58:10 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
The short answer is we would not take that contract against you. We don't accept concurrent contracts from current targets nor contracts against our current employer, nor do contracts for so little isk.
This answer could have saved you 10 pages of replies.

LIKE

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.
Vayeate Marquise
Doomheim
#405 - 2014-05-19 16:40:14 UTC
the fact that alek cant figure out lemmings and goblin are tied shows how far the incompetence runs Roll

so noir DOES see an issue with what they did, they are just playing the ignorance card

Problem? ~.~
Isabela Valentine
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#406 - 2014-05-19 23:16:33 UTC
You clearly missed the part where Gevlon publicly announced that he was no longer tied to Lemmings. Then again, I wouldn't expect anything less from someone afraid to post with their main.
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#407 - 2014-05-20 02:27:48 UTC
Isabela Valentine wrote:
You clearly missed the part where Gevlon publicly announced that he was no longer tied to Lemmings. Then again, I wouldn't expect anything less from someone afraid to post with their main.

or the part where Goblin personally mailed me that he wasnt leading them anymore

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#408 - 2014-05-20 12:18:55 UTC
Vayeate Marquise wrote:
the fact that alek cant figure out lemmings and goblin are tied shows how far the incompetence runs Roll

so noir DOES see an issue with what they did, they are just playing the ignorance card
This? Again? Even if they did know Lemmings were tied to Gevlon, he didn't hire them to be on their side, he hired them for a bounty contract. He hired them to kill goons, which they did. He didn't hire them to work with Lemmings. He could have done, but he didn't.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#409 - 2014-05-20 12:24:26 UTC
Pray tell, Lucas; How do you know a private contract between Gevlon and a merc group in so much detail?

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#410 - 2014-05-20 13:15:06 UTC
Danalee wrote:
Pray tell, Lucas; How do you know a private contract between Gevlon and a merc group in so much detail?

D.

Bear
Well you see, after Gevlon's refusal to pay, the details of the contract were made public. Gevlon then confirmed that it was genuine. So like that really.

By the way, you seem to brown nose Gevlon and his pets quite a bit for a member of a group that he's targeting. Spai!

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#411 - 2014-05-20 15:21:54 UTC
Gonna have to side with Lucas on that.....

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#412 - 2014-05-20 16:25:35 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Danalee wrote:
Pray tell, Lucas; How do you know a private contract between Gevlon and a merc group in so much detail?

D.

Bear
Well you see, after Gevlon's refusal to pay, the details of the contract were made public. Gevlon then confirmed that it was genuine. So like that really.

By the way, you seem to brown nose Gevlon and his pets quite a bit for a member of a group that he's targeting. Spai!



Haha, see and that is EXACTLY where Noir lost all credibility.
By the way, for a member of our coalition, you do seem to meddle a lot in hisec scrublord's affairs.

To be honest though it's a waste of my time back and forthing with you. It's not like anything will change, and it's clear that you must be the smartest, greatest, bestest guy in all the world, and nothing anyone else says means a damn thing because you are always right, yeah? I think I'll just be the bigger man, walk away and leave you to to your hisec merc white knighting.

Oh and just FYI, healthy arguments and debates usually involve both sides learning from each other You'll figure that out when you start to grow up. When you so fixed on your position that every apsect of what you say must be more correct than anyone else then you learn nothing.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#413 - 2014-05-20 16:57:04 UTC
Danalee wrote:
Haha, see and that is EXACTLY where Noir lost all credibility.
By the way, for a member of our coalition, you do seem to meddle a lot in hisec scrublord's affairs.
lol, **** off. Are you going to bring this up every thread? You've been in the CFC all of 5 minutes and you've spent pretty much the whole time with Tora's rod down your throat telling everyone how amazing Marmite are. If they're so amazing, then go back there.

Danalee wrote:
To be honest though it's a waste of my time back and forthing with you. It's not like anything will change, and it's clear that you must be the smartest, greatest, bestest guy in all the world, and nothing anyone else says means a damn thing because you are always right, yeah? I think I'll just be the bigger man, walk away and leave you to to your hisec merc white knighting.

Oh and just FYI, healthy arguments and debates usually involve both sides learning from each other You'll figure that out when you start to grow up. When you so fixed on your position that every apsect of what you say must be more correct than anyone else then you learn nothing.
Funny... Not really the same though.

The fact of this are plain to see though. More importantly Gevlon himself has agreed that the facts are the facts. And yet you still feel the need to harp on and on about how it MUST be Noir's fault, and how I MUST be mistaken.

By the way, do you follow me around specifically?

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#414 - 2014-05-20 17:14:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Danalee
Lucas Kell wrote:
Wall of text


Nope, I don't follow you arround, looks like you do follow me.
Anyhow, here is how it works: you attack my persona, you get bitten.
Resorting to low blows will indeed get you burnt, HTFU and deal with it.

You make sense (as in some other threads) you get a discussion.

I posted a few pages ago what I tought about the subject, many people agreed.
Everyone is wrong and should stop flailing about with their handbags.

You comming here with insightful comments as;
'you seem to brown nose Gevlon and his pets quite a bit for a member of a group that he's targeting. Spai!'
'you've spent pretty much the whole time with Tora's rod down your throat telling everyone how amazing Marmite are'
That's not even off topic, that's not classy. Always. Stay. CLASSY.

D.

Bear

PS: for the record, indeed: I like Tora, sure. Exept for mister riptar teg, there aren't any people I dislike. I like Alex, gevlon, heck, I even like you Lucas Big smile

PS2: Sorry Alek, I'll stop it, I do think all is said that had to be said about "that thing" good luck with your future endavours!

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#415 - 2014-05-20 17:18:39 UTC
Guys, GUYS! Take it outside ;p

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Vayeate Marquise
Doomheim
#416 - 2014-05-20 17:37:51 UTC
umm as far as cfc goes, isnt sma on the lower end of the pecking order compared to rzr? What?

Problem? ~.~
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#417 - 2014-05-20 17:41:07 UTC
Please don't instigate.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#418 - 2014-05-20 18:00:52 UTC
Danalee wrote:
Nope, I don't follow you arround, looks like you do follow me.
Anyhow, here is how it works: you attack my persona, you get bitten.
LOL
Bite away friend, if it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling, then bite away. I'm not going to just ignore fact though because some random is trying to troll me.

Vayeate Marquise wrote:
umm as far as cfc goes, isnt sma on the lower end of the pecking order compared to rzr? What?
Who knows, that pretty much changes daily. We're certainly not at the lower end when it comes to war stats though. To be honest nobody really cares who the non-CFC players think is the "worst pet".

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#419 - 2014-07-14 01:00:07 UTC
SEGM is shutting down and has been removed.

In unrelated news, new opening for a corp in NMG. ^^

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#420 - 2014-08-20 02:40:15 UTC
Has beens since 2008. #StillTheKing #ToraBora

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM