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[Kronos] Freighters and Jump Freighters Rebalance [Updated]

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1481 - 2014-05-20 11:30:01 UTC
Darkblad wrote:
But this one doesn't count.


Impressive.
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1482 - 2014-05-20 11:32:17 UTC
Walter Hart White wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Darkblad wrote:
Use this
And keep in mind that this is not limited to suicide Ganks alone.

The total number of (Jump) Freighter kills in Highsec from 23.04.2013 to 24.04.2014 (therefore excluding Burn Jita) is 2,385. A daily average of 6,5. But this one doesn't count.


Thank you and what the hell is that kill? Shocked -10 sec status pilot?

Either or under criminal timer.


It can only be under a criminal timer, CONCORD doesn't care about/shoot at pilots just because they have -10 sec status.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1483 - 2014-05-20 11:32:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Thank you and what the hell is that kill? Shocked -10 sec status pilot?

CONCORD doesn't care about sec status, only about recent criminal acts. It was either a timer or a ship swap that went wrong.

Best guess is that he was fooling around in lowsec and accidentally picked the wrong gate…
Lord'Eirik
The Brimstone Society
#1484 - 2014-05-20 11:33:25 UTC
This is a nice little gift to the freighter gankers, i bet the gankers will be extatic when they see the first killmail on the freighter kill with t2 cargo rigs to 725mill isk each that even helped them by reducing armor 5%+ armor each rig!

1 lowslot on freighters (reducing cargo by 27.5%) would have been good for freighter pilots, this rig idea is only a nerf and a kick in the face to those players that keep the game running and a gift to those only logging on to get a few easy kills before they log off to play other games!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1485 - 2014-05-20 11:34:55 UTC
Lord'Eirik wrote:
This is a nice little gift to the freighter gankers, i bet the gankers will be extatic when they see the first killmail on the freighter kill with t2 cargo rigs to 725mill isk each that even helped them by reducing armor 5%+ armor each rig!

1 lowslot on freighters (reducing cargo by 27.5%) would have been good for freighter pilots, this rig idea is only a nerf and a kick in the face to those players that keep the game running and a gift to those only logging on to get a few easy kills before they log off to play other games!



You do know that low slot would mean a huge nerf to freighter hp right?
stoicfaux
#1486 - 2014-05-20 11:45:04 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Lord'Eirik wrote:
This is a nice little gift to the freighter gankers, i bet the gankers will be extatic when they see the first killmail on the freighter kill with t2 cargo rigs to 725mill isk each that even helped them by reducing armor 5%+ armor each rig!

1 lowslot on freighters (reducing cargo by 27.5%) would have been good for freighter pilots, this rig idea is only a nerf and a kick in the face to those players that keep the game running and a gift to those only logging on to get a few easy kills before they log off to play other games!



You do know that low slot would mean a huge nerf to freighter hp right?

Worse. It would mean a "mandatory" DCU II module that you would have to click after each stargate jump. It's worse than mining, in that strip miners have a fixed cycle time, whereas warping and jumping don't.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#1487 - 2014-05-20 11:45:04 UTC
Taking a quick look at numbers. Taking your average route (~30 ly, say eurgrana to C6 in dronelands) currently JF max skills will burn 25k fuel, after fuel consumption increase it will be approx 37.5k meaning price increase from 30mil to 45 mil (1200 per isotope) one way trip (twice that for there and back). With 2x T2 rigs (~2 bil atm) this would mean ~120 isk/m3 for one way trip. With roqual the price is atm 102 isk/m3 but if the Roqual fuel consumption is increased as well it will be 153 isk/m3 (but do note that ore compression arrays will be present in empire POS'es as well and Roqual has 250k ore bay). Anyway these changes suck - all they mean is a 2 bil expenditure for all JF owners as cargo expander rigs are the only ones that make any sense on a JF. In a nutshell nothing changes other than slower align speed for JF's plus a mandatory 2 bil expenditure. Not a lot of choice in here - is it. Roqual will not be far behind or will be slightly better than JF per m3 (do not remeber if Roqual fuel consumption was increased as well, but probably was so it would be approx 20..25% worse isk/m3 if ore bay is empty, however industrials loaded with ammo might make some sense in its ship maint bay).

Roqual is far more survivable though (cloak + overloaded mwd trick, for example, some ECM drones, etc) and also somewhat cheaper ship. If it's also economical will depends on if ORE bay will be used but it might be new FOTM for supercap mineral hauling with JF only used for doing the last hisec -> low sec jump to avoid the gate.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#1488 - 2014-05-20 11:54:38 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Carebear industrialists have been demanding more tank and speed in their big spacetrucks for god knows how long - now that they're giving the option of that (but with a tradeoff, of course) they poop their spacepants and rage and rage and rage.

Good changes, and delicious tears. Great job Fozzie, more of this sort of thing.


I have no problems with trade offs, but how about we ask him to give you a 40% nerf of your guns and see what you say?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1489 - 2014-05-20 11:56:12 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
I have no problems with trade offs, but how about we ask him to give you a 40% nerf of your guns and see what you say?

In exchange for what?
Dave Stark
#1490 - 2014-05-20 12:09:19 UTC
Tippia wrote:
KIller Wabbit wrote:
I have no problems with trade offs, but how about we ask him to give you a 40% nerf of your guns and see what you say?

In exchange for what?

yeah, what are we getting for a 40% nerf?
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#1491 - 2014-05-20 12:15:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Carniflex
Tippia wrote:
KIller Wabbit wrote:
I have no problems with trade offs, but how about we ask him to give you a 40% nerf of your guns and see what you say?

In exchange for what?


I would presume for ability to fit full rack of T2 rigs for getting that 40% back. And ofc a minor agility reduction as a "tradeoff" Blink

Edit: As currently that is how it basically stands. There is only one rig combo that makes any sense for a JF and that is basically fitting full rack of T2 rigs for getting back where it was. There is no trade offs or decision to make basically as it's practically the only thing that makes sense. In case of 40% damage reduction for guns - if damage is more or less the only thing ship does well - it would be the same way nobrainer "decision" to make.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Dave Stark
#1492 - 2014-05-20 12:15:54 UTC
Carniflex wrote:
Tippia wrote:
KIller Wabbit wrote:
I have no problems with trade offs, but how about we ask him to give you a 40% nerf of your guns and see what you say?

In exchange for what?


I would presume for ability to fit full rack of T2 rigs for getting that 40% back. And ofc a minor agility reduction as a "tradeoff" Blink


except we already have that.

so again, what are we getting for a 40% gun nerf?
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#1493 - 2014-05-20 12:19:23 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Carniflex wrote:
Tippia wrote:
KIller Wabbit wrote:
I have no problems with trade offs, but how about we ask him to give you a 40% nerf of your guns and see what you say?

In exchange for what?


I would presume for ability to fit full rack of T2 rigs for getting that 40% back. And ofc a minor agility reduction as a "tradeoff" Blink


except we already have that.

so again, what are we getting for a 40% gun nerf?


The same warm feeling a JF pilot is getting from fitting these nice T2 rigs for getting back where it was. Like the fuel consumption increase would not have been enough to poke the smaller entities in the eye.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Dave Stark
#1494 - 2014-05-20 12:21:04 UTC
Carniflex wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Carniflex wrote:
Tippia wrote:
KIller Wabbit wrote:
I have no problems with trade offs, but how about we ask him to give you a 40% nerf of your guns and see what you say?

In exchange for what?


I would presume for ability to fit full rack of T2 rigs for getting that 40% back. And ofc a minor agility reduction as a "tradeoff" Blink


except we already have that.

so again, what are we getting for a 40% gun nerf?


The same warm feeling a JF pilot is getting from fitting these nice T2 rigs for getting back where it was. Like the fuel consumption increase would not have been enough to poke the smaller entities in the eye.


you haven't answered the question.

if you're going to nerf guns by 40%, what is being given to players?
Purpleshadez
Viziam
#1495 - 2014-05-20 12:24:49 UTC
6bil for the hull, 1.2bil for 2 T2 cargo rigs on a JF JUST to give it a max of 4% cargo hold bonus but around 10k less EHP and 5sec slower aline speed???


why??



i thought this expansion was to boost the industry not to nerf it, so why change the freighters at all???

**Too Proud to Beg, Too Stubon to Try **
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#1496 - 2014-05-20 12:49:47 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Carniflex wrote:

The same warm feeling a JF pilot is getting from fitting these nice T2 rigs for getting back where it was. Like the fuel consumption increase would not have been enough to poke the smaller entities in the eye.


you haven't answered the question.

if you're going to nerf guns by 40%, what is being given to players?



That was the answer. The "warm feeling". The same thing the JF pilots are getting :)

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1497 - 2014-05-20 12:53:07 UTC
Purpleshadez wrote:
6bil for the hull, 1.2bil for 2 T2 cargo rigs on a JF JUST to give it a max of 4% cargo hold bonus but around 10k less EHP and 5sec slower aline speed???


why??



i thought this expansion was to boost the industry not to nerf it, so why change the freighters at all???



People demanded rigs.
Allison A'vani
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1498 - 2014-05-20 12:53:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Allison A'vani
Mar Drakar wrote:
Kids how about you stop crying and deal with it.

back the day there weren't even carriers to jump around, and we dealt with it.
Then carriers came and it became much easier
then JFs came and it became "whatever"

imo this nerf isn't going far enough, and the very concept of multiple consecutive jump drive activations should be nerfed by logarithmic scale.

CCP, please MAKE NEW EDEN BIG AGAIN .

This step is a step in good direction.


"Back in the day," T2 prices were ridiculously high. Thanks to invention and the proliferation of JF (to move the region locked moon goo), you can use t2 ships and modules with out paying an obscene amount for them. Also, "back in the day," was before the high sec ice belt nurf, so isotopes were extremely cheep. You are welcome btw.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1499 - 2014-05-20 12:55:29 UTC
Carniflex wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Carniflex wrote:

The same warm feeling a JF pilot is getting from fitting these nice T2 rigs for getting back where it was. Like the fuel consumption increase would not have been enough to poke the smaller entities in the eye.


you haven't answered the question.

if you're going to nerf guns by 40%, what is being given to players?



That was the answer. The "warm feeling". The same thing the JF pilots are getting :)


Thats not the answer to the question asked.

Freighters will be able to beat the current freighter in cargo capacity or tank or warp speed ect. There are getting something out of these nerfs.

So what would we get for a 40% nerf in guns?
Big Dallocort
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1500 - 2014-05-20 13:00:40 UTC
Losing 200,000 from my obelisk, not happy