Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Even if they get cheaper, I still have to PAY for rigs on a ship that will still be worse AFTER you put those rigs on.

When rigs for freighters were first announced I thought great finally a way to customize my ship somewhat, but to be honest what I am seeing makes me wonder why you are even bothering? Save yourself the work as what you are proposing currently seems counter productive.

I can understand the changes to jump freighters to a certain extent, as this is an attempt to force people to source locally and reduce the airmiles on goods in nulsec somewhat, but given the size and revenues of the old boys club this is a flawed approach as ultimately you are attempting to balance on cost, which won't hurt the incumbents so much as just build the barrier for entry for new players even higher.

I can't understand why you are removing tank from standard freighters, they are laughably easy to gank currently and if anything the pendulum has swung too far that way - when I first heard about rig slots on freighters I thought great CCP are finally giving haulers a chance to defend themselves, instead you are forcing people to spend out on capital rigs to get their tank back to what it was.

Reducing the cargo capacity seems a bit pointless, you already countered packaged capitals entering Hi by increasing their size - and it is going to make it an even bigger pain when you want to move base of operation (as the push/pull industry changes in Kronos are meant to drive you to do). You can't transport many rigged ships via courier contract in a freighter as it is now - you run out of space before you get near the current 1bn gank bait limit.

Not a perfect solution, but...
Keep the 1CPU/1PG, which locks almost everything out, while adding low slots. (This keeps DCII and most other modules off.)
Possibly add a -100% fitting role bonus for bulkheads, if we want bulkheads to be fittable. Do the same for WCS if we want WCS fittable, but that seems like a trap option to me.

I can't guarantee a full list, but I think slots but no fittings leaves:
Inertia Stabilizer
Nanofiber Internal Structure
Expanded Cargohold
Overdrive
a single adaptive nano plating (and then you're out of grid...)
I guess you can fit a single co-processor to increase your 1 CPU by 10%.

Am I missing anything?

WCS, armor layering, and bulkheads all require some CPU. The one unfortunate lack here is the inability to improve the freighters' warp speed.

Don't like these changes at all.

Modules are much better suited to this because rigs can only be removed if they are destroyed. Optimal rigs for the freighter will change for each trip the freighter makes depending on cargo/destination. So really, these don't allow any useful customization at all. You get intel that there are some potential gankers in your path? Ok refit to hull rigs! Oh wait... that will cost you 600 mil.

Everyone knows 90% of freighters will just use the cargo rigs, so this is not a very useful change.

IMO, at the very least freighters should not be allowed to fit cargo rigs. Keep the cargoholds the same as before. Jump fuel/range rigs are also a better idea IMO for the jump freighters.

I also thought one of the goals of freighter changes would be to do something to increase the variability and risk/reward involved in HS ganking (so it's not as simple as "what's the EHP? ok we need x many nados/catalysts to guarantee the kill"). But I guess that wasn't considered as part of these changes?

Local production without local resources. You are a funny guy.

Removed some off topic posts.

No. I said that you only very rarely fit them because hull tanking isn't a proper tanking style outside of Orcas and (now) freighters. As such, giving them no fitting requirements won't affect any other ships, which is a good thing since the point would be to give freighters, specifically, a tanking option that freed them from the problems of damage controls under the proposed scheme.

So you can't say why they're imbalanced.

And?

i propose the same idea suggested for everything else; shoehorn an irrelevant and terrible minigame in to it.

i'm more a minesweeper kind of guy, personally.

Hull Tanking isn't viable, except on the Rorq and Orca, because you can't add resists beyond a DCUII and can't efficiently rep (even the best Hull rep is a joke compared to Armor or Shield).

It used to be an option, back when you COULD add hull resists and such, but isn't anymore. It's a joke, people that do it, do it for novelty, cause in every case outside the Orca and Rorq, tanking Armor or Shield would yield better results.