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Please Do Something About Bots
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Desmios Sanguis
10th Crusade
#1 - 2011-12-03 14:48:15 UTC
Please Do Something About Bots

Is CCP listening to anything we say? I've played since 2007 and I've never seen things this bad. Market/mining/ratting (market botting in particular) is at an ALL-TIME high! CCP, DO SOMETHING! It's driving me crazy!
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#2 - 2011-12-03 14:49:24 UTC
They are.
You're welcome.

What, you mean, you don't like how much they do, or how often they do it, or their efficiency at doing it ?
That's another story.

Akita T evewiki profile | | | Build your own EVE-ready PC
Prince Kobol
#3 - 2011-12-03 15:06:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
A Russian Alliance complaining about bots... Jesus next thing you know we will have the the goons claiming they are also against bots..

wait a minute....
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#4 - 2011-12-03 15:16:25 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
A Russian Alliance complaining about bots... Jesus next thing you know we will have the the goons claiming they are also against bots..

wait a minute....


The problem always seems to be with the other guy's bots.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#5 - 2011-12-03 15:33:51 UTC
Akita T wrote:
They are.
You're welcome.

What, you mean, you don't like how much they do, or how often they do it, or their efficiency at doing it ?
That's another story.


Typically flippant Akita T answer.

They don't do enough and anyone that spends 5 minutes travelling through 0.0 knows so.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-12-03 16:20:18 UTC
yeah CCP, cut all accounts which generate consistent income stream, if wallet is increasing, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, then terminate this account.

No human can play that much for real, if you argue that certain people do it for living, forced to farm gold by manual labour, then for the love of humanity terminate their accounts and track their IPs.

Very easy way to get rid of bots - if bounties add up for more than 20 hours (goons are lunatics, sometimes they grind to unconsciousness), teleport a cloaked GM into system, see through logs, ban and delete account.

ISK farming, by bots or by forced labour is immoral act which undermines EvE's open end economic system.

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again
Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#7 - 2011-12-03 16:23:18 UTC
Hey. Didn't you see the STERN warning? Huh? It came with some viscious THREATS! Along with that was a list of CONSEQUENCES....IF!!!

Scared me! I was gonna use a bot to cater ratting squadrons, as a side business...but hey. Brain the size of a planet and they have me serving club sandwiches.

DON'T BOT, OR ELSE...uh...AND WE MEAN IT!!

Look on the bright side. You could be one of the CCP staff's kids and be getting away with murder right now.

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#8 - 2011-12-03 16:23:43 UTC
they have

plex is now cheaper for bot accounts
there's a 60 bot account trial
unlimited alts and accounts


what more do you want them to do?
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#9 - 2011-12-03 17:08:29 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
[quote=Akita T]
They don't do enough and anyone that spends 5 minutes travelling through 0.0 knows so.


And what, in your estimation, would be 'enough'? Should CCP dedicate an entire team to flying around and asking everyone if they're bots? Should they just give up on developing the game and do nothing but bot-hunt?

The sad fact is, any system can be beaten. CCP is doing the best job they can, but nothing is ever going to be 'enough'; the botters eventually find a creative way to escape detection (again). CCP steps up their game (no pun intended) and for a while, the botters leave -- until someone finds a new way to escape being detected.

(For those that are curious, evoutionary biology calls it the 'Red Queen's Gambit'. In 'Through the Looking Glass, the Red Queen tells alice, '“Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!”. Her statement has been used as an example of 'survival of the fittest', where one species develops a new method of attack, their targets develop a counter-measure, and the attacker finds a way around that counter-measure, forcing the target to adapt again.)

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
T' Elk
Strategically Bad
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2011-12-03 17:14:05 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
A Russian Alliance complaining about bots... Jesus next thing you know we will have the the goons claiming they are also against bots..

wait a minute....

This is what I believe those in the world of literature call dramatic irony.

~Badposter since FOOOOREEEEEVAAAAAR~ I come back after 2 years to THIS? ~Now 4 years apparently
ight8
BLACK SQUADRON.
Get Off My Lawn
#11 - 2011-12-03 21:50:52 UTC
T' Elk wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
A Russian Alliance complaining about bots... Jesus next thing you know we will have the the goons claiming they are also against bots..

wait a minute....

This is what I believe those in the world of literature call dramatic irony.


a Goon quoting Literature is also dramatic irony.
EvilCheez
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-12-03 22:02:02 UTC
The stupid thing is that rmt people think the $$$$ they make from mining are free........wait what?
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#13 - 2011-12-03 22:20:23 UTC
The best thing waht CCP could do is to introduce game mechanics which make it difficult for bots to play the game.

detecting and eliminating bots isn't trivial. how can CCP be 100% sure that it is a bot even if its behaving like a bot? I mean there is a human behind every bot network. As soon the human behind the network notices that a few bots get banned the will try to make a few bots behave like humans... talk to others in local and so forth.


second possibility is to allow controlled botting. Yeah. Think about it. Make ships scriptable, skillbased, restricted. However those ships are disposeable, marked as AI and are not concord prodected (or something like that).

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
#14 - 2011-12-03 22:22:31 UTC
Because they are an accepted part of the game. Not necessarily adhering to the EULA, but, obviously supported by CCP. Or there wouldn't be any. Would there?
Arjola Elongur
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2011-12-03 22:22:51 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:

And what, in your estimation, would be 'enough'? Should CCP dedicate an entire team to flying around and asking everyone if they're bots? Should they just give up on developing the game and do nothing but bot-hunt?

The sad fact is, any system can be beaten. CCP is doing the best job they can, but nothing is ever going to be 'enough'; the botters eventually find a creative way to escape detection (again). CCP steps up their game (no pun intended) and for a while, the botters leave -- until someone finds a new way to escape being detected.

(For those that are curious, evoutionary biology calls it the 'Red Queen's Gambit'. In 'Through the Looking Glass, the Red Queen tells alice, '“Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!”. Her statement has been used as an example of 'survival of the fittest', where one species develops a new method of attack, their targets develop a counter-measure, and the attacker finds a way around that counter-measure, forcing the target to adapt again.)


In real life this is called 'Losing a battle' and it doesn't matter if you did your best, it only matters if you did enough.
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2011-12-03 22:25:45 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
[quote=Akita T]
They don't do enough and anyone that spends 5 minutes travelling through 0.0 knows so.


And what, in your estimation, would be 'enough'? Should CCP dedicate an entire team to flying around and asking everyone if they're bots? Should they just give up on developing the game and do nothing but bot-hunt?

The sad fact is, any system can be beaten. CCP is doing the best job they can, but nothing is ever going to be 'enough'; the botters eventually find a creative way to escape detection (again). CCP steps up their game (no pun intended) and for a while, the botters leave -- until someone finds a new way to escape being detected.

(For those that are curious, evoutionary biology calls it the 'Red Queen's Gambit'. In 'Through the Looking Glass, the Red Queen tells alice, '“Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!”. Her statement has been used as an example of 'survival of the fittest', where one species develops a new method of attack, their targets develop a counter-measure, and the attacker finds a way around that counter-measure, forcing the target to adapt again.)

making python injections and hooking into the eve process slightly less trivial would be a good first step.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#17 - 2011-12-03 22:36:01 UTC
Opertone wrote:
yeah CCP, cut all accounts which generate consistent income stream, if wallet is increasing, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, then terminate this account.


... you do realise that if someone is selling a ton of things on the market, their wallet can increase on a 24/7 basis, right?

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Titania Hrothgar
Nemesis Retribution
#18 - 2011-12-03 22:36:40 UTC
One idea is to completely remove the auto-target system. That may help.

All the world's a stage and all the men and women are the players.
Arjola Elongur
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2011-12-03 22:40:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Arjola Elongur
Velicitia wrote:
Opertone wrote:
yeah CCP, cut all accounts which generate consistent income stream, if wallet is increasing, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, then terminate this account.


... you do realise that if someone is selling a ton of things on the market, their wallet can increase on a 24/7 basis, right?



... you do realise that it is possible to determine if the money is coming from sell orders, right?
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#20 - 2011-12-03 22:42:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Astrid Stjerna
Florestan Bronstein wrote:

making python injections and hooking into the eve process slightly less trivial would be a good first step.


A good first step, but only effective until someone finds the next loophole. You can wrap the client in enough security to make a corporate firewall look hopelessly amateur, but eventually someone, somewhere, will find a way in.

Velicitia wrote:

... you do realise that it is possible to determine if the money is coming from sell orders, right?


When I worked for T-Mobile, we had an unofficial policy about disputed calls: the customer has to point to a call that she thinks is suspect. There are way too many calls logged in an account for us to just go through them one by one.

It's the same with EVE.

There are, at any given moment, twenty to thirty thousand people playing this game, and at least 3/4 of them are buying and selling on the market at any given time. I don't know about you, but I don't exactly love the idea of running through a log of two or three million orders in search of a weird pattern of 'sell' commands.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
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