These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Science & Industry

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Hisec POS question

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Walton Street
#1 - 2014-05-16 19:08:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Walton Street
Which is generally preferred for deterring someone from bashing a (EDIT: small) hisec POS? multiple ECM, or shield hardeners? (Assume turret damage is roughly equivalent for either build.) Hardeners help against all attackers at any range, but only if they use that damage type, ECM can interfere with any damage type, but only if they're in range and only as many ships as I have ECM. Both can be overcome with numbers. I see the pros and cons of both, I'm just unsure of the relative benefits.

Thanks.



No, I'm not telling you where this POS is going, nor what I'm doing with it.

No, you can't join my corp to be a starbase gunner.

And no, I don't want to buy your T2 BPO.

Just thought I'd put those out there. Blink
tx eight
The Dry Stout Society
#2 - 2014-05-16 19:37:52 UTC
Walton Street wrote:
Which is generally preferred for deterring someone from bashing a hisec POS?


Vigilance.


Walton Street wrote:

multiple ECM, or shield hardeners?


There is no 'or' here. There is only 'and'.
Walton Street
#3 - 2014-05-16 19:42:32 UTC
tx eight wrote:
Vigilance.


Well, yes. However, I was speaking specifically to starbase structures, not whether or not I'd be stupid and neglect it.


tx eight wrote:
There is no 'or' here. There is only 'and'.


Humor me for a moment and assume for a moment that it's "or" due to fitting limitations.
Inka Heluene
Inka Industrial
#4 - 2014-05-16 19:48:36 UTC
Having no hardeners would just be a bad idea, but at the same time there's only so many you can use before stacking penalty's hit. So the there is no "or". If fitting limitation came into play you could play around with lower resists in exchange for extra ECM but you still are going to need both. I would recommend maxing out resists and go from there.
Walton Street
#5 - 2014-05-16 20:00:12 UTC
I'm sensing that I'm on the wrong track here, so let me tweak my question somewhat.

I am planning a POS and I can only fit two of the following three:

1. Guns
2. EWar
3. Resists

I had assumed that #1 was a given, but now it's sounding more like #2 and #3 is the best option. Am I getting that right?
Inka Heluene
Inka Industrial
#6 - 2014-05-16 20:05:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Inka Heluene
What size of pos? If its a small I really wouldn't worry much about defending it IMO. For larger ones ewar is necessary IMO, it will annoy most attackers to the point they might just leave. And resists are required for proper defense as it goes inside the force field. Guns I'd rank 3rd on the list.

*I should note I've never actually been attacked so this is somewhat theoretical :D

Edit: Also, when hooking up some guns go with small/medium. Skip the large!
Walton Street
#7 - 2014-05-16 20:10:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Walton Street
Inka Heluene wrote:
What size of pos? If its a small I really wouldn't worry much about defending it IMO. For larger ones ewar is necessary IMO, it will annoy most attackers to the point they might just leave. And resists are required for proper defense as it goes inside the force field. Guns I'd rank 3rd on the list.

*I should note I've never actually been attacked so this is somewhat theoretical :D

Edit: Also, when hooking up some guns go with small/medium. Skip the large!


Oh I'm daft. I meant to include in the OP that this is a small POS. Sorry.

Thanks for the tip on gun size, but that's one thing that I actually remembered: POS guns are "oversized", so small guns are really cruiser-level and medium are battleship-level.
Inka Heluene
Inka Industrial
#8 - 2014-05-16 20:18:08 UTC
In that case I'd setup enough defense to give you some extra time to get online, grab your stuff, and gtfo. Odds of an attack are low enough I'd consider it disposable. Just carefully manage what you store there.
Walton Street
#9 - 2014-05-16 20:22:23 UTC
Thanks for the input. I'm just using it as a jumping-off point for some research and production, all low-level stuff. If it pans out, I may upgrade.

Cheers!
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#10 - 2014-05-16 21:09:34 UTC
Drone boats laugh at your ECM.
Walton Street
#11 - 2014-05-16 22:02:39 UTC
Aerie Evingod wrote:
Drone boats laugh at your ECM.


An excellent point, one I should have remembered from my earlier years.

Can a POS gunner target drones with EWar modules (or any modules for that matter)?
Nightingale Actault
Borderland Dynamics
#12 - 2014-05-16 23:14:57 UTC
You won't have to worry about defenses for a small POS. The lack of fitting room is going to mean that any attacker is going to get through your defenses quite easily. Your best option is to make sure you can check your EVE notifications daily and tear it down anytime you get wardecced. Once you start moving up to a medium/large POS is when these things will become more necessary.
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#13 - 2014-05-17 01:15:43 UTC
Walton Street wrote:
Aerie Evingod wrote:
Drone boats laugh at your ECM.


An excellent point, one I should have remembered from my earlier years.

Can a POS gunner target drones with EWar modules (or any modules for that matter)?




Yes you can ECM drones but that would be a ******** use of POS ECM.
Ginger Barbarella
#14 - 2014-05-17 02:34:02 UTC
Smalls aren't worth defending in high sec. Just unanchor it if wardec'd.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#15 - 2014-05-17 04:34:32 UTC
Towers are easy to replace, and even more so after July 22.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#16 - 2014-05-17 19:26:49 UTC
Ewar is less useful now with Marauders immunity to ewar.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Walton Street
#17 - 2014-05-19 13:37:58 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Ewar is less useful now with Marauders immunity to ewar.


That's another thing I've been wondering: have people started using Bastioned Marauders as hisec dreads yet? Their one PvP weakness (aside from their price) was their low sensor strength which made them easy to jam with ECM, but with the Bastion Module, that limitation is gone.
Marcus Iunius Brutus
Hoborg Labs
#18 - 2014-05-19 14:30:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcus Iunius Brutus
Walton Street wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Ewar is less useful now with Marauders immunity to ewar.


That's another thing I've been wondering: have people started using Bastioned Marauders as hisec dreads yet? Their one PvP weakness (aside from their price) was their low sensor strength which made them easy to jam with ECM, but with the Bastion Module, that limitation is gone.


I took a look at zkillboard and here are high sec Caldari Control Towers kills involving Marauders from 1st March to this day:
https://zkillboard.com/kill/38118861/
https://zkillboard.com/kill/37945476/
https://zkillboard.com/kill/38614893/
https://zkillboard.com/kill/37212592/
https://zkillboard.com/kill/37167710/

To be honest, I thought I'd find more.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#19 - 2014-05-19 15:07:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Walton Street wrote:
I'm sensing that I'm on the wrong track here, so let me tweak my question somewhat.

I am planning a POS and I can only fit two of the following three:

1. Guns
2. EWar
3. Resists

I had assumed that #1 was a given, but now it's sounding more like #2 and #3 is the best option. Am I getting that right?
Generally, on a small pos there won;t be enough guns for anyone to care. They'll sent in a group to declaw the POS, then grind though the shields.

The best way to defend a POS is to make it as unappealing as possible to fight. A few hardeners and a shedload of ECM is usually a good bet, with just a couple of guns to blap a few things. Guns are cheap, so sling a few offline ones up so you can swap and change if needed, and keep a bunch of guns to throw onto the POS if it does get reinforced.

Think about it this way. Shooting a POS that is shooting you means you have to out-tank the guns as you grind through the shields. Shooting a POS that is knocking out your targeting with ECM means you need to keep targeting and firing, and can become tedious and annoying. But what others have said is true, a small POS is barely worth defending, since even a small group could nuke it.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2014-05-19 15:44:41 UTC
First off - Small POS is a disposable asset. If you cannot defend it don't expect it to be able to withstand to a strong solar wind, nevermind any kind of assault.

Given the immunity of marauders to ECM and the fact drones laugh at you as well (can someone confirm if drones are still immune to ECM?) the ECM blobstar of yore is less effective than it was.

Which leaves guns and hardeners. Lots of guns is always nice but I ran some calculation on a POS with lots of shield hardeners...

You can get close to 300 million EHP on a large POS, which will take a fleet doing 10k DPS over 20 hours to take down, assuming no shield regen (i.e. will take longer).

In other words - sure the hardeners only way can get your POS knocked out, if someone really wants to do it, but it's going to be a very long, very painful slog to do so. They might just decide to go blow up the POS of some other guy.

Of course, ECM is still good if you know whoever comes knocking doesn't have marauders available I guess.
12Next page