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Industry, politics, and physics. (Don't fake the physics, please.)

First post
Author
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#21 - 2014-05-19 11:46:20 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:

Why would Jump Fuel double in price?


You know what's happening to JF and similar, don't you?

Ramona McCandless wrote:

Why would goods coming from null make things more expensive?


Because it's going to be more expensive to transport raw materials from null to high sec. That means any that do get there are going to have a higher price. This means that people who build in high sec are going to produce at a greater cost, which means prices there will rise. Producing in null won't be any better. Unless you're spectacularly lucky, you probably won't have everything you need to produce T2 components (for example) available supplied locally, so you're still going to have to import some stuff and then export it at much greater cost because your local null market isn't big enough to support the kind of volume you'd usually be able to shift in Jita.

Really massive applause to CCP with their attempt to manipulate the markets there. Just like in RL, unintended consequences are... unintended.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#22 - 2014-05-19 12:05:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Victoria Sin wrote:

You know what's happening to JF and similar, don't you?

Not anything that would adversely effect fuel prices, nor is anything set in stone.

Victoria Sin wrote:
Because it's going to be more expensive to transport raw materials from null to high sec. That means any that do get there are going to have a higher price.

Because of above. So if above is hustle-bustle, then the price doesnt rise. In fact, it goes down due to the potential of Null supply coming to High Sec markets in larger quantities. The price would rise if there is no point shipping these items to high any longer because High ceases to be the one-stop-shop for all your items and thusly stops being a bottleneck.

Victoria Sin wrote:
Really massive applause to CCP with their attempt to manipulate the markets there. Just like in RL, unintended consequences are... unintended.

Ah. I see.

Pyro: That's a dorky looking helmet. What's it for?
Magneto: This "dorky looking helmet" is the only thing that's going to protect me from the REAL bad guys.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2014-05-19 13:05:05 UTC
Andronaxus wrote:

3) Lowsec is anarchy. More loss due to piracy. Hence, industry doesn't flourish because what fool would invest capital in an area afflicted with lawlessness? [Net plus to costs]



Please google anarchy.
But to help you it is a system of government that doesn't have rulers.
That is very different from not having rules.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy

As summary Kant named four kinds of government:

A. Law and freedom without force (anarchy).

B. Law and force without freedom (despotism).
C. Force without freedom and law (barbarism).
D. Force with freedom and law (republic).

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85

Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#24 - 2014-05-19 13:21:52 UTC
Silvetica Dian wrote:

Please google anarchy.
But to help you it is a system of government that doesn't have rulers.
That is very different from not having rules.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy

As summary Kant named four kinds of government:

A. Law and freedom without force (anarchy).

B. Law and force without freedom (despotism).
C. Force without freedom and law (barbarism).
D. Force with freedom and law (republic).


Yeah, but in reality, anarchy means what most people think it means.

A stupid mess.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Orla- King-Griffin
#25 - 2014-05-19 13:51:08 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Silvetica Dian wrote:

Please google anarchy.
But to help you it is a system of government that doesn't have rulers.
That is very different from not having rules.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy

As summary Kant named four kinds of government:

A. Law and freedom without force (anarchy).

B. Law and force without freedom (despotism).
C. Force without freedom and law (barbarism).
D. Force with freedom and law (republic).


Yeah, but in reality, anarchy means what most people think it means.

A stupid mess.


A godforsaken stupid mess

Ah shite...

Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2014-05-19 23:32:55 UTC
ORLY? I've lived places where anarchy is the order of the day, though i think it was described as anarcho-syndicalism, not that i could really explain what that is. Anyway, everybody was decent and common sense was a priority. The need for badges and violent vengeance was often raised by marginal idiots who were generally frowned upon, ridiculed and sent to the edges of everything to cool off.
It could work for large numbers of people, but it would require a heap of participation, maturity, pragmatism and self-control, of every single individual, so there's the main problem with anarchy.
Null works with despotism pretty well, probably because there's no women or children or food supply to consider, another arbitrary physics gap if ever i saw one.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Markus45
Doomheim
#27 - 2014-05-19 23:35:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Markus45
Andronaxus wrote:

1) Hisec is law and order. Less loss due to piracy.

It is in fact the opposite. By a long shot.

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Andronaxus wrote:

We've decided to change the physics of the game such that it is MAGICALLY possible for nullsec ore mining to compress ores into a more dense form than is possible in hisec, where the physics somehow changes with relation to ore compression once we pass through a hisec jump gate.
Nullsec miners are using a technology that is forbidden by Concord to do so. Problem solved.

I heard you need tears of high-seccers to fuel the advanced compressors, something already obtained in large amounts by the null-sec entities.
Markus45
Doomheim
#28 - 2014-05-19 23:41:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Markus45
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2014-05-20 01:55:40 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Silvetica Dian wrote:

Please google anarchy.
But to help you it is a system of government that doesn't have rulers.
That is very different from not having rules.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy

As summary Kant named four kinds of government:

A. Law and freedom without force (anarchy).

B. Law and force without freedom (despotism).
C. Force without freedom and law (barbarism).
D. Force with freedom and law (republic).


Yeah, but in reality, anarchy means what most people think it means.

A stupid mess.



In essence it meant no King or big political parties pushing economic/religious agendas and bullying and exploiting the common people but you would still have the law, police and so forth.

In reality it is no longer relevant as the main reason for bullying and exploiting of the common people is now corporatism and if anything a strong centrist government can be useful in controlling the excesses of big business.
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2014-05-20 04:30:39 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
...
In essence it meant no King or big political parties pushing economic/religious agendas and bullying and exploiting the common people but you would still have the law, police and so forth.

In reality it is no longer relevant as the main reason for bullying and exploiting of the common people is now corporatism and if anything a strong centrist government can be useful in controlling the excesses of big business.


Law and police? They are just outsourcing of your civilian responsibilities. Anarchy = deal with me fairly or i'll kill you. Naturally it leads to clan warfare as feuds start and persist, then on through a feudal system until capitalism serves as a bridge to a socialist utopia which, like solar power, is a completely impossible fantasy.
The excesses of big business are meant to be spurs that cause the slaves to revolt, but TV has fixed that.
Don't be so down on bullying and exploitation, some people demand it and benefit from it.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#31 - 2014-05-20 05:09:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:

You know what's happening to JF and similar, don't you?

Not anything that would adversely effect fuel prices, nor is anything set in stone.


Apart from fuel efficiency going down by 33% for all cyno travel, no there's nothing happening that would adversely effect fuel prices.
Nimrod vanHall
Van Mij Belastingvrij
#32 - 2014-05-20 06:02:20 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:

You know what's happening to JF and similar, don't you?

Not anything that would adversely effect fuel prices, nor is anything set in stone.


Apart from fuel efficiency going down by 33% for all cyno travel, no there's nothing happening that would adversely effect fuel prices.

This will increase demand, 'cause the only things that can completely be produced locally are PI products, T1 mods and ships. The resources needed to create T2 modules namely moongoo is purposely unevenly distributed in low/nul to force trade. Realisicly T2 mods also need meta mods which sov.nul can only partly produce locally. You can, as an example, produce ishtars locally in fountain but not in providence

Demand for T2 mods and meta4 mods in nulsec will continue for the reason pvpers, who create demand by getting ships blow up, play this game is to blow ships up.

I forsee a massive prise increase for T2 modules, a decrease of usage of T2 fleet concepts.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2014-05-20 10:33:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
If I understand the patch notes correctly, compression will be possible in high sec with a POS module..
As far as your physics complaint goes, I don't get it at all. We have sound in space, no gravity to speak of, PI and Dust available on virtually every planet regardless of size, mostly concentric planetary orbits with no dual suns, flames and fiery explosions in space, instant communication over light years of distance, suns that do no damage regardless of proximity, no black holes, re-spawning asteroids, ships that take no damage bumping into things, no true time distortion for moving faster than light, and multi-races that have been isolated on separate planets for a 1000 years yet they all speak the same language. and that doesn't even cover the highly improbable in the mix. It's a fantasy, it's science fiction. You do know this stuff is not the real world.. right?

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

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