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Player population growth vs people real life constraints.
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Jessica Ones
Out of the Blue Evolutions
Young Miners Christian Association
#21 - 2014-05-19 11:42:11 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Jessica Ones wrote:
TL;DR In trying to build player populations is CCP taking in to accout perspective players may have real life time constraints that are not compatible with the current EVE ideal play style?

TL;DR: Bad idea.

CCP have stated and demonstrated on several occasions that there is no such thing as an 'ideal play style'.

Whether Carebear, pirate, teacher, scammer, market trader, awoxer, pvper, miner or any other play style; they are all viable and valid choices; and really the choice of which profession has little to do with the time available to devote to it.

...

If by that you mean, there needs to be a 100% safe area where people can just go without any concern of being ganked, then that would be a bad idea, for many reasons that have been outlined in similar threads in the past.




Two point but in reverse order:

Actually I think a 100% safe area would be disaster in EVE it would just be another ISK faucet in the the economy. Also there has to be some risk to keep it interesting. But its a matter of how much. For example HS has a risk, you always know that you could get ganked which keeps you on your toes a bit. But it used to be fairly low probability of it occurring. However recently miner bumping has been fairly successful and has discourage quite a few people I know from mining. Sure this is a goal of "http://www.minerbumping.com" as it will theoretically drive up prices. But at the same time if a player abandons mining and fails to re-engage in another area of the game that player is less connected to EVE and no more likely to unsubscribe.


To your first point I have to strongly disagree, CCP "says" that there is no ideal play style and that any career is viable. However there actions are consistently the opposite of that. Much like (American; I wouldn't make assumptions about the rest of the world) politicians, they say what sells then do something quite different.

Look at the upcoming industry changes. Adding standing impact to manufacturing costs will cripple many Indy Alts that never had their standing built. This should encourage more PoS which increases exposure to PvP. Industry Team appears to spread out manufacturing locations possibly breaking up the traditional market hubs. Freighter changes further increases PvP risk. Generally I believe this is part of the "null funnel" to make HS less attractive and encourage players down the funnel to null and low-sec. But again this assumes players will and are capably of going that direction which goes back to do they have the real life time? If not then all this work is only to the counter productive point of alienating paying customers.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2014-05-19 12:04:30 UTC
Jessica Ones wrote:
Generally I believe this is part of the "null funnel" to make HS less attractive and encourage players down the funnel to null and low-sec.

Nah, it isn't.

If anything, it maybe partially makes null somewhat more ISK-efficient. Maybe.

But then your whole reasoning makes no sense at all: what does ISK-efficiency have to do with the possibility to log on to EVE and have fun 1-hour per day???

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Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2014-05-19 12:09:06 UTC
Funny i live in null in a pvp alliance and we have 1-2 hour long fleets several times a day in timezones that suit our members.
People play when they want and pvp when they want.
I don't even understand the OP premise.
Playing in null requires no more game time than any other eve lifestyle.

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Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#24 - 2014-05-19 12:15:13 UTC
Without falling into the null tinfoil hattery, this thread seems to be a bit of the usual from casual players. Essentially what it boils down to is that because a player can't achieve in 1 hour what another play achieves in 10 hours, that there's simply no point in a casual player with only 1 hour actually playing at all. That's simply a ludicrous concept. Look at any MMO and you'll see that players who can put more time in can get more stuff, because they can do more things than someone with less time, that's just common sense. In other games though it seems that causal players are OK with that.

Why are some casual players not OK with just playing EVE? Why do they feel that they must be competitive on every level with the hardcore gaming crowd to make it worthwhile?

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Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#25 - 2014-05-19 12:21:48 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:

Why are some casual players not OK with just playing EVE? Why do they feel that they must be competitive on every level with the hardcore gaming crowd to make it worthwhile?


I have agreed with Kell posts in the past

But not as strongly as this

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Nick Starkey
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2014-05-19 12:43:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Nick Starkey
There are lots of playstyles out there that don't require a lot of active play. Manufacturing, PI, trading to name a few for example. These may take some initial time to setup and figure out the optimal ways of operating, but after that they only require some brief maintenance. And I'm pretty sure the grand majority of people stay in highsec, so there's no such thing as 'endgame' in any particular space.

Eve is quite honestly as casual as it gets in terms of playing time being related to character development.

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Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#27 - 2014-05-19 13:15:25 UTC
Nick Starkey wrote:


Eve is quite honestly as casual as it gets in terms of playing time being related to character development.


While that is true, it is irrelevant since character development means very little in Eve.

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Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2014-05-19 15:53:17 UTC
CCP knows ways to adjust this - it's been discussed but the community at large wouldn't accept the changes to draw in more actual players to the game. They have pretty much exhausted the quantity of people who like this style of play.

I'll put it this way - one of the more popular types of events E-Uni has for its members are cruiser or frigate FFA battles. Members fly out to a given location and try to blow each other up for fun. There are limits on what can be used... so on and so forth.

Arenas would draw in a sizable amount of players to the game; increasing destruction of ships - so on and so forth. But that would also be *VERY* harmful to what could then be termed "world PvP".

I mean why roam for 2+ hours to perhaps get 3 fights? Why spend 6 hours sitting at a gate camp to pop a half dozen solo travelers that offer *NO* risk? Instead just simply go to an arena and across the next 3 hours, fight a whole bunch of balanced fights vs any chance of being "blobbed" or ambushed or coming out empty handed from camping gates?

It's an attractive idea for more casual and newer players but would eliminate a great deal of the "world PvP" and that is unacceptable to the *EXISTING* longer term player base who do like the environment they are in.

CCP can't really afford to anger their existing audience in hopes of attracting a new base.

So CCP works with what they have - which is trying to find more people who fit how the "consumption" side of how EVE currently operates and, again, that is not a huge audience of gamers with the very slow and uneven way PvP runs in this game.
Desivo Delta Visseroff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-05-19 16:25:53 UTC
In a way, I am effected/effect and agree with the TL:DR.

During the Fall/Winter and crap weather days, I'll spend all day and night playing EVE just to avoid feeling cold and miserable outside. Conversely, during the Spring, Summer and early Fall days I'm hardly ever on in the game aside from updating my skills and bad-posting on the forums.

I'm certain that it is possible to pvp for an hour, but I'm usually too drunk or too busy going out and bad-flirting with all the pretty skirts out there.

TL:DR - I'm perma bad, and my game time is seasonal. Cool

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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2014-05-19 17:20:09 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Without falling into the null tinfoil hattery, this thread seems to be a bit of the usual from casual players. Essentially what it boils down to is that because a player can't achieve in 1 hour what another play achieves in 10 hours, that there's simply no point in a casual player with only 1 hour actually playing at all. That's simply a ludicrous concept. Look at any MMO and you'll see that players who can put more time in can get more stuff, because they can do more things than someone with less time, that's just common sense. In other games though it seems that causal players are OK with that.

Why are some casual players not OK with just playing EVE? Why do they feel that they must be competitive on every level with the hardcore gaming crowd to make it worthwhile?

Actually I found this to be a breath of fresh air in terms of carebear manifestos. I would love to see more content in eve that's easy to jump into without much preparation before hand. Fortunately, miner ganking is one of these activities so my three hours a week is not wasted.

OP: I think you need to be a little more creative with what you can do in one hour of game time. Fleet Ops are mostly out, but there's other solo activities besides the ones you listed.

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Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#31 - 2014-05-19 17:52:34 UTC
The OP also seems to misunderstand the variable scale of activities. PVP can be anything from takig a couple of frigates out to FW space to mess with the locals, or hour-long operations in deep null. What you might not realize is how singular players tie into larger operations. You don't have to be there from beginning to end. That's handled by the guy who happens to have a good chunk of the day to devote to gaming (Fleet Boss usually). If you are close by and have a matching ship for the op, you can join in - even if it's just for half an hour. The trouble is getting into a position where fleets like that are readily available and the FC is actually a nice guy to fly with.

There is something to say for the fact that some players will have an easier time handling things like timers because they have 23/7 to play the game. While yeah, these individuals have excellent timezone coverage they probably don't have a job. Meaning I can make more ISK out of PLEX all day erry day, should I choose to do so. I'd rather sell hours of my life to a well paying boss then to an MMO to be honest.
Taz Edenrunner
Kit TBR
#32 - 2014-05-19 18:48:08 UTC
As a player who's weekly time fluctuates wildly from 1-2 hours to a couple of days here and there, there are plenty of things to do such as:

1. mission running/incursions
2. production and/or invention
3. high/low sec ganking with a dessy ganker (takes a few days to train...then biomass and train a new one when -5 sec status)
4. exploration
5. R.v.B
6. hauling
7. taking a frig or two into low sec and having fun
8. mining if really bored
9. station trading

I'm sure there are plenty of other activities to do, the trick is to go and try things rather than expecting CCP to arrange things for people with limited play time, take full advantage of the real time training that eve offers to expand your options.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#33 - 2014-05-19 19:02:26 UTC
I can think of plenty of ways in which CCP could provide incentive to attract more casuals into the game.

Thing is, none of them would be good for the game.

Mr Epeen Cool
Precentor Saggitus
Planet Express Transport
#34 - 2014-05-19 19:55:14 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
I can think of plenty of ways in which CCP could provide incentive to attract more casuals into the game.

Thing is, none of them would be good for the game.

Mr Epeen Cool


That all depends on what you think would be good for the game. I can think of plenty of things as well, that generally would have a net benefit. As always, you wouldn't be able to please all of the EVE population. One of the things I feel though is that the casual player options are directly tied to the new player experience, which things that would improve one will improve the other and we're not talking about large changes


That said though, in general EVE is probably one of the best casual player games there is. There is lots to do. I think the trouble might lay in the fact that its not immediately obvious what those things are.

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