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Why Eve isn't more popular?

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Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#341 - 2014-05-19 08:34:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Buzzing sound


You really like the sound of your own voice

Please add something of relevance instead of poitnlessness.

You are incorrect.

Your understanding of the game is flawed.

You have no concrete facts, just what you feel.

You are wrong.

If this game needs more of your kind in it, then I pray they hasten the end.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#342 - 2014-05-19 08:37:15 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Ramona McCandless wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Buzzing sound


You really like the sound of your own voice

Please add something of relevance instead of poitnlessness.

You are incorrect.

Your understanding of the game is flawed.

You have no concrete facts, just what you feel.

You are wrong.

If this game needs more of your kind in it, then I pray they hasten the end.


Well as your preconceptions prevent you from reading the whole post and too many words clearly offend or confuse you.

Read my sig.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#343 - 2014-05-19 08:42:36 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Well as your preconceptions prevent you from reading the whole post and too many words clearly offend you.
Read my sig.


Preconceptions are all you have.

Your words are as empty as your head and you offer nothing but what you imagine is reality.

Your counterpoint to Jenn's points holds no water.

Your argument of why she has her point of view is groundless.

Please stop expressing opinions based on what you imagine things are like and try actually seeing them as they are.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Neutrino Sunset
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#344 - 2014-05-19 09:32:31 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
If this game needs more of your kind in it, then I pray they hasten the end.


Epicurus made a couple of points.

1. That although some people like to portray Eve as being primarily about their playstyle (predominantly PvP) and seek to belittle anyone who pursues a different playstyle, that in fact Eve supports multiple playstyles.

2. That it makes sense for CCP to seek to support multiple playstyles as that will improve Eve's popularity.

These seem like a reasonable viewpoint to me, but you've now spent four posts trolling him without once explaining what it is that you actually take issue with.

And for you to accuse anyone of liking the sound of their own voice is pretty rich as it seems you're not happy unless you've splurged something in almost every thread on this forum.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#345 - 2014-05-19 09:39:16 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

So the more you drive people away to my little pony online or the more realistic competition, the sooner your game style gets extinguished.



When exactly is this scheduled to take place? Because it hasn't happened in 10 years, so I would like to add it to my calendar.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#346 - 2014-05-19 09:39:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Neutrino Sunset wrote:

Epicurus made a couple of points.

Thank you for actually making them in his behalf so that they can be considered as points and not a rant

Neutrino Sunset wrote:
1. That although some people like to portray Eve as being primarily about their playstyle (predominantly PvP) and seek to belittle anyone who pursues a different playstyle, that in fact Eve supports multiple playstyles.

Agreed, though not about the playstyle fascists, unless you disagree that Industry and Marketeering are equally PvP activities.

Neutrino Sunset wrote:
2. That it makes sense for CCP to seek to support multiple playstyles as that will improve Eve's popularity.

And they do

Neutrino Sunset wrote:

These seem like a reasonable viewpoint to me, but you've now spent four posts trolling him without once explaining what it is that you actually take issue with.
And for you to accuse anyone of liking the sound of their own voice is pretty rich as it seems you're not happy unless you've splurged something in almost every thread on this forum.

My issue is that the clear points you make are pretty much the opposite of what he is saying. In fact, they are what he disagrees with in Jenn's posts.
Now, just because you don't like what I have to say or perhaps you disagree with it does not make it trolling.

So, if you have an issue with a statement I have made or a question I have asked, by all means provide a counterpoint.

But please, dont stand and accuse me of something I have not done just because you do't like what I have to say.

Let's keep it civil, as the ISDs like to say.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Neutrino Sunset
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#347 - 2014-05-19 10:19:32 UTC
Jenn aSide's post was characteristic of those who've looked down on any playstyle other than PvP with its talk of 'themepark features' and suggestion that anyone who thinks PvE could use improvement should play another game instead.

Epicurus made the two points I've now highlighted exactly as I've made them, and which you now seemingly agree with. So why you take such issue with his original post I still don't know.

Stuff like this:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Buzzing sound
You really like the sound of your own voice
this..
Ramona McCandless wrote:
If this game needs more of your kind in it, then I pray they hasten the end.
..and to mischaracterise his short post as a rant, certainly fits the definition of trolling to me.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#348 - 2014-05-19 10:19:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Aralyn Cormallen
Ramona McCandless wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Buzzing sound


You really like the sound of your own voice

Please add something of relevance instead of poitnlessness.

You are incorrect.

Your understanding of the game is flawed.

You have no concrete facts, just what you feel.

You are wrong.

If this game needs more of your kind in it, then I pray they hasten the end.


If you want a few laughs, he is quite the grandstander (to be fair, his threads made the Live Event slaughter all the funnier):

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=294464&find=unread

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=294777&find=unread

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=294227&find=unread
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#349 - 2014-05-19 10:27:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Neutrino Sunset wrote:
Jenn aSide's post was characteristic of those who've looked down on any playstyle other than PvP with its talk of 'themepark features' and suggestion that anyone who thinks PvE could use improvement should play another game instead.


Jenn is a dedicated PVEr. She makes this clear in nearly every post she makes. The idea that her post is characteristic of anything but her experience in PVE is to entire misconstrue her points to the extreme of completely misunderstanding them, which is what I pointed out.

If you consider this trolling, well tbh given your own prejuices about " those who've looked down on any playstyle other than PvP with its talk of 'themepark features'" it is not I who is trolling here.

But for some reason, even after I agree with your re-purposing of the previous comments into something that actually makes sense, you insist on continuing your personal attacks.

If you are looking for an emotional response to your attempts, you will have to try harder there.

EDIT: Just noticed your genetic lineage. Sebiestor. I might have known.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#350 - 2014-05-19 10:27:58 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:

If you want a few laughs, he is quite the grandstander (to be fair, his threads made the Live Event slaughter all the funnier):

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=294464&find=unread

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=294777&find=unread

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=294227&find=unread


Indeed, he has a track record of talking complete rubbish in an attempt to stir people up.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Neutrino Sunset
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#351 - 2014-05-19 10:50:35 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
...you insist on continuing your personal attacks.
Good grief. You just told someone that it would be better for Eve to be shut down than for them to be allowed to play at all, and you accuse me of making personal attacks!

You're really something.
Shari Evan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#352 - 2014-05-19 10:56:02 UTC
You know, alot of people call EVE either "The most interesting game i don't want to play" or "the game that don't want to be played". Even if you like EVE how it is today (so do i) you have to admit that the game isn't known for its customer friendliness.
Sure, the Tutorial is nice - but Newbies will ask "what now" and EVE by itself will not deliver any answers.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#353 - 2014-05-19 10:58:09 UTC
Neutrino Sunset wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
...you insist on continuing your personal attacks.
Good grief. You just told someone that it would be better for Eve to be shut down than for them to be allowed to play at all, and you accuse me of making personal attacks!

No, I said that "If this game needs more of your kind in it, then I pray they hasten the end."
Which means; If you feel the game needs Quest Givers and missions to collect 50 Orc butts and rollercoasters where you sit on rails and it shows you things about a lore that's meaningless, Id rather they killed it now rather than let it starve intellectually and stagnate into the WoW model, with WoW-style players that I and many others came here to escape.

So, if you mean Id rather EvE die than change to an entirely different kind of game than the sort it is, one that is barely a game at all, then yes, but what you claim I said is not what I actually said.

Neutrino Sunset wrote:
You're really something.


Thank you

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#354 - 2014-05-19 11:06:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Neutrino Sunset wrote:
Jenn aSide's post was characteristic of those who've looked down on any playstyle other than PvP with its talk of 'themepark features' and suggestion that anyone who thinks PvE could use improvement should play another game instead.
You do realise that Jenn aSide is primarily a PvE player?

PvE does need attention, but not at the expense of improvements to the rest of the game. I, like Jenn aSide, do primarily PvE, even though it's pretty dire but Eve itself is a primarily PvP game where even the PvE is either designed to fuel PvP or is actually PvP disguised as PvE.

I could play games that have a much more polished PvE experience, but I don't. Those other games don't have the atmosphere or scope for mischief that Eve has, because they're designed to appeal to the masses who don't want to have to think and plan their way through their gaming experience, or to experience meaningful loss.

TL;DR Eve will never be as popular as WoW or most other MMO's because most people want content spoonfed to them, and because they don't like the idea of actually having to think about what they do. In Eve YOU are the content for other players.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#355 - 2014-05-19 13:02:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Neutrino Sunset wrote:
Jenn aSide's post was characteristic of those who've looked down on any playstyle other than PvP with its talk of 'themepark features' and suggestion that anyone who thinks PvE could use improvement should play another game instead.
You do realise that Jenn aSide is primarily a PvE player?


Stop it. This is GD, the truth has no place here lol. People like this Neutrino cat NEED that 'you're just a narrow minded PVPr' crutch to lean on, because if they allow themselves to believe that other PVE players disagree with them their whole argument falls apart lol.

It's not about PVP vs PVE. It's SANDBOX vs THEMEPARK. I'm a Sandbox PVE player. I enjoy EVE's PVE because if you approach it as sandbox content it's pretty fun.

Here is an example of Sandbox PVE thinking from the missions and complexes forum: [Kronos 2014] Machariel: King of Level 3s (86M/isk in assets/hour) .The 'thempark' pve players decided years ago that lvl 3s were never worth it, yet here is a sandbox PVE guy using the new tools of an expansion to do something in a different way.

Other Sandboxers do so all the time, like the guys who know how to blitz lvl 4s with cheap battlecruisers, like the guys soloing LVL5s with ASB Vargurs or MJD + mobile micro jump unit Domis or the guys kiting COSMOS plexes with artillery Wolves/Jags and selling the loot to COSMOS explorers ect ect. Personally I'm waiting for the Mordus ships to see what I can do with them in PVE FoF missile-wise.

The Themepark PVE players need someone to do their thinking for them and complain about how bad the PVE is. Sandbox PVErs are too busy trying out new things with old mods and ships to worry about crap like that. it's like the themeparkers would rather complain than think of new ways to have fun.

Likewise, the Themepark PVP players are all docked up and mad at CCP for the fact that EVE doesn't have Arenas for Easy on demand PVP rather than flying in space searching for it and MAKING it happen like sandbox PVPrs are.

So again, it's not PVP vs PVE, it's Sandbox vs Themepark and , unfortunately for the bear crowd, EVE is a sandbox game.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#356 - 2014-05-19 13:31:34 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Jenn aSide wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Neutrino Sunset wrote:
Jenn aSide's post was characteristic of those who've looked down on any playstyle other than PvP with its talk of 'themepark features' and suggestion that anyone who thinks PvE could use improvement should play another game instead.
You do realise that Jenn aSide is primarily a PvE player?


Stop it. This is GD, the truth has no place here lol. People like this Neutrino cat NEED that 'you're just a narrow minded PVPr' crutch to lean on, because if they allow themselves to believe that other PVE players disagree with them their whole argument falls apart lol.

It's not about PVP vs PVE. It's SANDBOX vs THEMEPARK. I'm a Sandbox PVE player. I enjoy EVE's PVE because if you approach it as sandbox content it's pretty fun.

Here is an example of Sandbox PVE thinking from the missions and complexes forum: [Kronos 2014] Machariel: King of Level 3s (86M/isk in assets/hour) .The 'thempark' pve players decided years ago that lvl 3s were never worth it, yet here is a sandbox PVE guy using the new tools of an expansion to do something in a different way.

Other Sandboxers do so all the time, like the guys who know how to blitz lvl 4s with cheap battlecruisers, like the guys soloing LVL5s with ASB Vargurs or MJD + mobile micro jump unit Domis or the guys kiting COSMOS plexes with artillery Wolves/Jags and selling the loot to COSMOS explorers ect ect. Personally I'm waiting for the Mordus ships to see what I can do with them in PVE FoF missile-wise.

The Themepark PVE players need someone to do their thinking for them and complain about how bad the PVE is. Sandbox PVErs are too busy trying out new things with old mods and ships to worry about crap like that. it's like the themeparkers would rather complain than think of new ways to have fun.

Likewise, the Themepark PVP players are all docked up and mad at CCP for the fact that EVE doesn't have Arenas for Easy on demand PVP rather than flying in space searching for it and MAKING it happen like sandbox PVPrs are.

So again, it's not PVP vs PVE, it's Sandbox vs Themepark and , unfortunately for the bear crown, EVE is a sandbox game.


Now that I agree with. This is a game full of possibilities, it is not a zero sum game of PvP OR PvE, However ALL playstyles have value and deserve respect.
I strongly believe that those who wish to actively remove and harm players that do not "get" EvE are a toxin in the game.
Your pervious comment implied you were a member and activist of/in this group, this post shows a much deeper understanding.
Unfortunately your previous post fed into and encourages this mentality, and it is this attitude that will harm the game for us all.
I welcome this clarification. And I hope we all are able to welcome new players who will play for many years, always finding new opportunities.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Riyria Twinpeaks
Perkone
Caldari State
#357 - 2014-05-19 13:42:01 UTC
I think most people here don't consider people who don't "get" EvE a toxin.
It's just those who don't "get" EvE and want to change it to another themepark and/or risk-free environment, who aren't well liked.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#358 - 2014-05-19 13:42:16 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Now that I agree with. This is a game full of possibilities, it is not a zero sum game of PvP OR PvE, However ALL playstyles have value and deserve respect.


Oh, this should be good. Let me see if I can find it, pretty sure I have a quote of you somewhere that says awoxers should all be banned from the game.

Might have been deleted though, like about three hundred of your other posts.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#359 - 2014-05-19 13:45:13 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Now that I agree with. This is a game full of possibilities, it is not a zero sum game of PvP OR PvE, However ALL playstyles have value and deserve respect.
I strongly believe that those who wish to actively remove and harm players that do not "get" EvE are a toxin in the game.
Your pervious comment implied you were a member and activist of/in this group, this post shows a much deeper understanding.
Unfortunately your previous post fed into and encourages this mentality, and it is this attitude that will harm the game for us all.
I welcome this clarification. And I hope we all are able to welcome new players who will play for many years, always finding new opportunities.


You are such a liar

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#360 - 2014-05-19 13:53:37 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:


Now that I agree with. This is a game full of possibilities, it is not a zero sum game of PvP OR PvE, However ALL playstyles have value and deserve respect.
I strongly believe that those who wish to actively remove and harm players that do not "get" EvE are a toxin in the game.
Your pervious comment implied you were a member and activist of/in this group, this post shows a much deeper understanding.
Unfortunately your previous post fed into and encourages this mentality, and it is this attitude that will harm the game for us all.
I welcome this clarification. And I hope we all are able to welcome new players who will play for many years, always finding new opportunities.


That wasn't' a clarification. Almost everyone else understood what I meant in the post you linked and I stand by it.

The issue at hand has nothing to do with "playstyles". EVE is a sandbox game, if you need the game makers to make fun for you instead of being the type who makes for for yourself, you are in the wrong game and STO is a better choice. They even call their content additions "episodes".

Simple test here. Say you have 2 free hours on a weekend. Do you:

A- Watch a war movie

or

B- play paintball with your friends while you significant other video records you guys making fools of yourselves (ie MAKE a war movie).

If you answered B, welcome to EVE. If you answered A, then welcome to almost every other MMO. EVE can never be super popular so long as it's a sandbox game that requires self-starting behavior and creativity. Most people aren't self starters.