Science & Industry

Hey,

I'm currently working on a spreadsheet for myself to look up how profitable it would be to move from T1 to T2 manufacturing, I realise I probably just haven't found the right products yet, but I can't avoid feeling a bit of jealousy towards the T2 BPO owners as I'm watching these numbers. From what I gather owners of T2 BPO(s) pay only the material cost to build the item, while inventors pay the material cost + invention fee (+decryptors in some cases) and you also have to make copies for the invention process. Not to mention T2 BPOs probably have better ME and PE aswell, increasing the margin between the two.

I've also heard people stating that it's all about volume and how inventors can produce more than T2 BPOs, I also find this false as it's all about profit/slot/day. I realise it's not likely to own enough BPOs to fill your production slots but there's nothing stopping you from inventing even if you have a T2 BPO. Now, I'm not saying T2 BPOs are ruining the market, but they surely must have an impact for the worse for inventors and in some smaller markets (where the profit margin is usually higher due to the slow selling speed, though not in this case) the margins are probably even worse thanks to BPOs. Despite what people may say, many of the BPOs are ISK making machines with no risk involved, as the margins are so extremely high, the risk of losing ISK is non-existant.

There are no new T2 BPOs being seeded into Eve, yet the original ones are still here, to me it just seems like CCP is afraid to make a decision, remove T2 BPOs, or make invention more profitable in comparison. Now before you go on about how profit margins won't change because of the small impact the originals have on the market, that's not my point. To be honest I don't have any idea at all how big the impact is on the market, you probably don't either, perhaps it's less than what is noticeable as some say, but even if so, I still think the existance of T2 BPOs in their current state is wrong. With some obvious exceptions (special items at christmas, alliance tournament ships etc) either make items available in-game or remove them like you probably should have the day invention was released, all in my opinion of course.

In Eve you often hear talk about risk vs reward and perhaps on the industry side that, in some cases translates to work vs reward, this doesn't apply to the T2 BPO part of manufacturing, inventing is quite a bit more work yet yeilds a lot less profit. I get that many of you invested lots of ISK in T2 BPOs, but I still think their existance is unfair to inventors.

To the T2 BPO owners out there crying because of lost ISK, you have to be pretty stupid to buy a T2 BPO and not consider the risk of it being removed or something else being changed in the game, so that's a risk some willingly took. Almost everything you do in Eve involves some risk, you decided yourself it was a risk worth taking.

It is what it is. No amount of T2 bpo threads is going to change it.

Download my program if you want to find invention profits faster. Link in sig.

What if I offered you ISK equal to the profit you could make off that BPO in the next, say, 10 years?

Oh joy, another T2 BPO whine thread. At least the OP is honest in that he freely states that his issue is borne of jealousy.


If market demand > BPO supply then invention already sets the price.

If market demand < BPO supply then it's a crap market that you'd have isk tied up in where you'd be better off inventing something else anyway.

Then, of course, there are all those items that don't have BPOs, don't have a big demand and sell for less than invention cost anyway. Before they remove T2 BPOs they need to work on removing the stupid.


As for T2 BPOs not decreasing in price.... Might want to speak to those stuck holding T2 10Mn MWD BPOs.

I honestly don't know who's the stupid one, the one who can't manage to read the original post, and who does not have the capacity to get the point of it. Then perhaps it's the one posting and complaining about the very obious game design mistake that is T2 BPOs. I never said there is not money in invention, it is very obious there is. I never complained that I can not make ISK from invention, that is not my problem. I think Eve is a great game, I love the economy and the manufacturing side of it. I also think the existance of T2 BPOs is wrong. I think it might be a good idea to do something about them, to state it in simple words you might understand. The fact that you ask me to look into other markets because of T2 BPOs speaks for itself.

Also, another thing that always comes up in these threads are people saying how unfair it would be if they decided one day to just simply remove all T2 BPO's.


I can't help but compare this to the Supercap nerf.


Should supercaps have been introduced into EVE? No.

Was it fair to Supercap Pilots? No.

Was it needed and improved the game? Yes.


I guess the real dispute is how -needed- it is to 'fix' T2 BPO's, however that may be.

Food for thought.

You posted in this forum before and still haven't noticed this before? I hate to say it, but there's more intelligence on 4chan than in this forum on occasion.

Alright, the price of BPOs set by players is irrelevant. Say you get a T2 BPO for free, it will be better than inventing, agreed? (To clarify for everyone incapable of reading the full post, this is not about the T2 lottery)

Just to make a comparison. Say I'm in a Machariel doing missions, it's a great ship (just like inventing probably can be a great way to make ISK), I can make a lot of ISK doing missions with it, I don't doubt that it's one of the best in minmatar space. Now say there was a ship that was invulnerable and could instantly kill everything, that would simply make it overpowered compared to the Machariel. Now say this second ship was also seeded to the community 4 years ago in small numbers. That ship would probably be invaluable and in a few cases it would sell for unimaginable amounts of ISK (I'd guess), would that, in your opinion make it balanced? Since it is the players that dictates the price of items, the price does not make the item more or less balanced.

The cost of T2 BPOs is in my opinion not the problem, that's a consequence of the problem.

Buying a BPO and manufacturing is not about the BPO paying for itself, it's an investment, the blueprint is not worthless after you buy it. I'd guess it's a pretty safe "low maintenance" high-ISK investment (investing 200b "in the market" is not), it is not worthless once you obtain it, you calculations cannot ignore that fact. I don't know why you want me to do the math for you, I'm quite capable, though I already know the result would be in the T2 BPOs favor, the ISK spent on the BPO is not ISK lost. Though that is something that is always is in the opinion of the player.

If CCP allow us to research T2 BPCs, problem solved.

Next question ?

I understand!
I think you are right: I will completely neglect future acquisition costs for my calculations. I think this way I will earn much, much more! Thank you very much for your insight in economics 101. The comunity has much to learn from you!