Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So you are also in the camp of "everyone will move to Caldari space" i take it. If we use this as a baseline to view the changes then you're correct, this would have a negative impact on the game.

However, is it really realistic to assume that everyone, or even a large % of people will decide to live in Caldari space because of the shift in market? What items could possibly cause the degradation of trade hubs due to lack of flow? Maybe racial specific items like LP goods and ice? But everything else that can be manufactured will instead either be either hauled or locally supplied. It's going to be the differences in the local supply and demand that will cause the price changes. With the exception of the racial specific goods of course.

And I never said anything about this change being friendly to "newer" haulers and traders. In fact this change is mostly for the people to pick up hauling and trading and then have nowhere to go with it. Currently there is nothing too friendly for newer haulers and traders, but there's also nothing for experienced haulers and traders. Training into a freighter and then auto piloting from one trade hub to another is not really content. Flying through dangerous space in a hauler or even a Blockade Runner etc etc, now that, i would say is actual content. There will still be local hauling to be done of course. The profits will be similar to what hauling has now so you won't lose that. There will just be additional content for people or corps wanting to take hauling to the next level.

The problem with Jump Freighters, they consume fuel. This means that, based on the price of fuel, to move goods from one market to another with a JF requires a minimum amount of profit to cover the cost of fuel. And the more this is utilized the more fuel is going to be used, the more fuel is used the greater the demand on fuel, the greater the demand on fuel the greater the price of fuel..... AND the greater the price on fuel, the greater the minimum profit of trading goods from one market to another with a JF will be. How's that for a self governing mechanic?


That's fine, however, anything that makes doing high-sec incursions less trivial now matter how minimal it is a great thing in my opinion. With this they'll need to have at least 4 clones, 4 ships and 4 sets of implants to be as effective as they are now, minimum. It's not like any new players can really get into high sec incursions with the current culture anyways.

In regards to jump clones, there is almost 0 chance that a pod will get caught when not on auto pilot. There is of course a few niche situations where they can be caught as always but not enough to be considered standard.

Actually, no, it's an acknowledgement of trade concentration and the fact that easy transport between enpires helps other trade hubs rather than harming them since nothing hinders good from flowing. Having large price desparity due to barriers being erected doesn't help hubs thrive. Either way, a place with greater resource availability is a place that is better for manufacturers to get materials to produce.

How would it not? Right now interempire trade is easily accomplished on a small scale with a T1 hauler. Those limited to those vessels would have a much harder time competing with JF/blockade runner capable individuals. Regular freighter pilots need not even apply. This further constricts the supply of good moving back and forth to equalize hubs as well, which contributes to stagnation of hubs with significantly higher pricing.

This is a given, though not likely in my opinion to fluctuate once that equilibrium is reached in the manner you suggest. Individual markets would need massive swings of a very inconsistant and sporadic nature to keep items moving enough to matter, yet be spaced apart enough time wise to create fluctuations in isotope prices for any sort of jump fuel regulation to work.

I was simply addressing the point you brought up, but that aside chosing to ignore an unhealthy mechanic or entranch the unhealtheir portions is stilla poor idea even if you personally chose not to care.

That doesn't make sense. If ease of transport doesn't affect trade hubs removing that ease can't either. And while local demand does help a hub, it only does so with respect to global prices. If demand is high enough compared to supply and price differentials increase much beyond the cost to move an item people will seek other sources of supply. What confuses me in this is the assumption that local hub price differentials will magically settle at a point where trade will be greatly more incintivised yet somehow that differential won't be enough to cause local demand to seek cheaper outside supply.

That reasoning seems anecdotal at best, but even if most don't, doing so will be feasible for none when compared to alternatives if the suggested change is made.

Unless JF fees become prohibitive in some form or fashion, which carries with it a number of other implications making this change even more questionable, that's going to make the lower profits worth questionable returns compared to the risks.

Local demand only stays local when there is incentive to do so. If the price differential for a given item is wide enough and trade doesn't bring it closer to equilibrium it won't just be the traders that look elsewhere, it will be the end buyers. That is a major factor in capping trade profits and a major difference from real world trade. Moving goods will still be just as easy for the end users as it is traders, thus any large scale difference won't move goods on the high price end unless all movement services between empires stops at the same time rather than capitalizing on the new business.

Keep in mind we were talking about small scale players on the interempire trade, which is exactly what you are trying to change.

Yes, I am aware, which means you have messed with the isotope market ignoring the effect this has on the rest of the game and still capped what makes sense for non-JF haulers t move.
I think you are under the impression that if low sec was introduced everyone would just deal with whatever prices were locally available rather than seeking other sources of supply as end users. Prices stagnate from both traders and users being aware of prices throughout highsec. This isn't something exclusive to traders and as such has them competing even against people who aren't even in their profession.

Essentially a large price differential IS bad for a hub when it's prices are on the high side because people stop using that hub for the items affected.

Sorry to disappoint you (Nah, not really sorry), but Jita IS the only source for a lot of stuff, beginning with moon goo to T2 components, booster gas, T3 production materials, faction and deadspace items over to certain ships and rare minerals. Good luck trying to get that sort of stuff in Amarr or Dodi or Rens for an affordable price, if you can find it at all there. And this is not going to change with this change, quite in contrast, it's only bound to get worse.

What about racial faction modules? What will happen to those from Amarr, Gallente and Minmatar? Will people stop using them because everyone is going to live in Caldari space?

What these items will really do is create the climate for consistently profitable cross-empire hauling. (assuming what you're saying is true about moon goo, gas and T3 mats. I know the rest not to be true already.)

So basically what you're saying is that people will buy the stuff they want and haul it themselves? Yes i'm sure there will be some of that happening. However there are also lots of people who'd rather pay more than travel even a few jumps to find what they're looking for. I personally am quite guilty of doing that. If there are goods locally, people will buy them even at a significantly higher price in some cases. This is why this will work.

Not that it doesn't happen, but that it doesn't happen frequently enough to really impact anyone.


Would it be more viable to purchase something in another empire for a cheaper price and haul it to yourself in your empire?
Well if it was a high end item, like Dead space, faction, pirate, officer modules yeah i can see that. But not for everyday items like Tech 2 modules or minerals. One time purchases don't really impact trade hubs.

That works for low variances, like the price ubiquity we have now. You want to inflate these variances.

Again that depends on the quantity and variance. When items don't freely flow there tend to be strong variances and I've passed on even common T2 mods for being at a stupid price point in a hub. Even T1 ships of any appreciable cost can be worth looking for, or anything purchased in large amounts. Actually, for saving myself from having to move it personally I'd probably be more inclined to seek price incentives than now on at least ship purchases.

And one thing of note, the faction mods you mention are definitely one of the things usually worth looking into, and would only be more so with lowsec introduced, thus affecting their trade potential as regional items.

Game design doesn't revolve around your imaginary hisec folk