Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I would say not actually since the players who mainly live in hisec are those without the time to devote to typical nullsec activities and politics. The two areas are very different and cater for very different players. I think both areas are generally working as intended and agree that losec needs some love, but making it bigger isn't the way as that just creates more space for players to avoid or ignore in respective cases.

The reasons to enter losec need to be improved via PvE, increased player interaction somehow, attractive reasons for those teetering on the edge of jumping in to actually do so. This would still only be a small %age of hisec players though. If losec is relatively empty perhaps it would make more sense to condense losec by removing systems from it (make them hi/null) which would bring losec folks into much more contact and create much more friction

People go where they go for their own reasons, the above is your personal view. Many people have a different view on what is fun but because it doesn't match others views that doesn't make either side right or wrong. Eve caters for most playstyles and is better for it. Increasing the size of losec just makes more empty space, it needs more people in the existing space to improve things. Also I thought level V missions required a small fleet and paid well. There must be some reason people don't run them therefore a different approach is required to entice people in.

Turn the idea on it's head (by way of example, I'm not suggesting this) and make losec smaller and more hisec systems. Those PvP folks living there could of course continue in PvP activities but with the risk of being CONCORD'd. Those that don't want that are *effectively* forced to change their way of playing or move systems into a smaller less lucrative area of space. This is the flipside of the OP and would be just about as welcomed by the losec folks as the OP would by those in hisec.

That sounds much more workable to increase losec folks and I have proposed similar before in other threads, harder more interesting and varied missions to bring people in and introduce people to more PvP style game mechanics.

Not in the slightest. What you try to use as base for a model (both your Low sec as well as your 00 sec analogy) are vastly different space types from what the OP wants to create. In those, nearly no one cares about sparsely traveling though people (the number of people who do is negligible). That is entirely different space from Low sec areas, which connect trade hubs of large magnitude with each other. In this kind of space, that is the only thing what people care about. (I refuse to repeat my previously mentioned examples, which prove exactly that.)

In this kind of Low sec area you could not even do what you probably mean with "traveling in [that areas] for nothing more than fun". There is hardly any fun in trying to evade nearly unavoidable gate camps for the majority of people; there is no fun for people who want to use these Low sec areas for Exploration or missions, which they cannot do because of camps and combat probing; there is no fun in being forced to go through there or having to circumvent it with expensive JFs to get direly needed goods for your activities outside the main tradehub of the game (which ever this is going to be after such a change took place); there is no fun in having to deal with jojo-ing markets; there is no fun in running missions that would constantly lead to Low sec, which you cannot run because of camps; there is not even a lot of fun involved for PVP when the only thing campers do is running away in case someone actually managed to muster a sizable fleet to roam that Low sec or counter a camp.

Besides, as you already mentioned: We already have large communities living and having fun in Low sec and 00 sec. They should fill up that space and make it space worthwhile living and wasting time for first, before we should think about adding more of that kind of empty space to the game.

You make highsec 100% safe, no ganking allowed (make concord response time so quick that it just won't be possible anymore), and remove the ability to attack war targets in highsec space (could have concord come to your rescue in highsec), and i'll be all for adding manditory lowsec space travel between the 4 highsec regions.

Just as long as theres at least 3 different paths to travel between each highsec zone, so people can't just all gate camp one system like Niarja and Uedema is now. And the distance through lowsec isn't more than 6 jumps.

You get your pvp ganking zones, and i get to know where i'm safe and secure, and i get to choose when to take a risk to go someplace else.

You could even build it into the lore. Capsuleers are pushing against the empires. Empires have to retreat back into their space, and give up the edges of their domain to capsuleers. But in doing so, now concord response times in high sec space has improved since they aren't spread out as much.


I'd also like to see more high sec to high sec wormholes in general.

Actually, the reason people live in null/low/wh space is because it's profitable. That profitability also allows them to have high level, high expensive pvp, and if they consider it such fairly regularly fun.

The awesome part about the risk stuff is that you can already observer it with other systems through parallels.
So when people say this idea is good and that it will work, it's because they have something to go by.

On the other hand, though, when people come up with radical counter arguments, such as everyone will confine themselves to jita, or everyone in high sec is going to un-sub, trade will suffer etc etc, it's really hard to understand what your reasoning is based on and it's really hard to not be skeptical of what you're saying.

i can only see good from this. each empire will probably have its on large trade hub and a few minor. it also make faction warfare more believable. id be very interested to see the effect this would have on highsec. certainly worth a look after 11 years isnt it

High sec is already stagnating this would help shake things up, in a good way. A super hub would be impractical with upcoming changes to industry, causing Jita to become all but impossible to make any profit my manufacturing within The Forge region.

High sec is stagnant, that is why people complain about the profits there. All there is to do in high sec to make money currently is basic missioning and mining. To make money trading you either have to get into a freighter or once you've made enough money you can play the .01 isk buy/sell game. Oh and of course Incursions, in which the current culture is self limiting on the number of people who are able to part take in this, who are going to tend to be older players.

By breaking up the Empires, first and foremost, you will not impede Missioning and Mining at all. Everyone will still have mining and the same levels of missions available without ever venturing out into low sec. Second, with the discontinuity of free travel the local trade hubs in each empire will grow with the exception of Jita. There will definitely be price differences between each trade hub and they will be able to grow to fairly large margins. This will give people the ability to haul, at a risk, between each empire for a profit without having to first skill into flying a freighter. Thought moving things from the edges of empires to the central trade hub will no doubt remain similar in profitability for freighters. As for the .01 isk buy/sell game.... to be honest, i have no idea how this will be impacted if it is impacted at all, though i'm not too worried about it for some reason. And the Incursion players, well all 50 to 100 of them will probably be the least happy about a change like this. Their profession requires the most mobility across high sec, but also provides them with the greatest rewards with basically no risk. For them, this change would better reflect how things should be. They should not be making 250mil/hour in high sec with no risk. Having to traverse low sec to get to the next incursion, in my opinion, should be a minimal resistance to their over the top reward/risk ratio.

I know you'll continue to disagree, but please explain your logic and reasoning for your perspective. If you're point, as in the post i quoted, is that it'll be a drastic change and that we should wait and see how things go for now. Then that's fair. But to never do it, now i very much will disagree with that stance.

With the heightened danger of low sec hauling becomes more prohibitive than before. The act of rendering freighters unfeasible for the task will slow the flow of goods further since smaller solutions would be the only way to move goods. It works to emphasize JF's much the way hauling promotes freighter usage now, meaning the bar for effectiveness in both training and cost moves further up.

Even on the small scale blockade runners become the new go to over t1 haulers. There is nothing friendly towards newer haulers/traders in this suggestion. Raising the bar of risk will always favor more capable older players.

There is also the likely negative effect that those other trade hubs degrade due to the lack of flowing goods from Jita. If people center in caldari space, which is already largely the case, to avoid paying the margins brought about by isolation of the markets it largely defeats the purpose of the change.
2 words, jump clones. Again, another reason this is trivialized for older wealthy players who can afford high value redundant assets in various areas of space.