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If CCP wants more money then why don't they offer more services?
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Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#21 - 2014-05-18 18:41:18 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
Black Panpher wrote:
There is a massive difference between people buying high SP chars on the bazaar and devaluing SP by adding boosters.
What a stupid comparison. -.-



How so? How is 40 million SP in a year game breaking but 200 million SP in a day not?


Because it didn't take a day to create a 200mil SP character to sell on the Bazaar. Someone still had to train that 200mil SP toon for it to be sold and bought.

Imagine how much more gamebreaking it would be if that 200mil SP toon took less than half the time because someone with money just used PLEX to boost it.


less than half the time being some 5 years instead of 10. And that assumes that the player keeps using plexes to boost the training speed through the entire pilot career.

What are you really worried about? That in 5 years eve pilots might have a larger selections of pilots to choose from at the bazaar?

Personally I'd rather CCP had more funds to work with so that we will still have an Eve online in 5-10 years. More income will if anything let them spend more efforts on the game itself.

Grunanca wrote:
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
Like SP buffs for money/plex or bonus remaps for money/plex


Or race/bloodline/gender change for money/plex.


People want these things and they have money to throw at you for providing it so why not?


Say a 100% SP gain buff for 30 days that cost 2 plex. You can't even argue that it causes any form of imbalance because you can already spend money on plexes. Plexes for isk and then use the isk to buy any 200 million SP character of your choice on the bazaar.


I'd even argue in favour of name changes for money/plex. People argue that a characters history is important in Eve. So add a big red line of text in the employment history that says "Changed name from X to X"


Yes you can argue against it... Characters you buy have set skills, not chosen by you. They also have a post on the forums that shows they were bought. You want all the best combined with buying skills. Double skillpoint gain is bad.


Characters you buy have exactly the skills you choose. It's why you pick that pilot instead of the others.

If I want a tengu pilot then I can buy that. Or if I want an Erebus pilot then I can buy that.



The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#22 - 2014-05-18 18:42:05 UTC
If the government wants more money, why don't they sell drugs?
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#23 - 2014-05-18 20:04:55 UTC
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
What are you really worried about? That in 5 years eve pilots might have a larger selections of pilots to choose from at the bazaar?

No.

That once you start down the pay-to-win road as an integral part of the game, where does it stop?

Do you really think that if this was introduced to meet your request, that other things wouldn't also follow? Special ships, ammo, etc.

It's not that pay-to-win would become and option for players, it would become a necessity just to remain competitive.
brinelan
#24 - 2014-05-18 20:16:09 UTC  |  Edited by: brinelan
This pops up on the forums every few months, and the answers are all the same. Paying for SP would break the game in so many ways, but I guess the instant gratification kiddies will keep asking for stupid stuff just like the "i want fitting in my freighter" crowd did despite being told over and over why it was a bad idea, then if pay to win does get added in to the game they wont like the outcome just like the "i want fittings for my freighter" crowd is right now.
Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-05-18 20:18:26 UTC
HATS CCP



YOU NEED TO ADD HATS TO THE NEX STORE. THAT IS WHERE THE MT CASHCOW IS AT.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-05-18 20:18:56 UTC
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
Like SP buffs for money/plex or bonus remaps for money/plex


Or race/bloodline/gender change for money/plex.


People want these things and they have money to throw at you for providing it so why not?


Say a 100% SP gain buff for 30 days that cost 2 plex. You can't even argue that it causes any form of imbalance because you can already spend money on plexes. Plexes for isk and then use the isk to buy any 200 million SP character of your choice on the bazaar.


I'd even argue in favour of name changes for money/plex. People argue that a characters history is important in Eve. So add a big red line of text in the employment history that says "Changed name from X to X"


-SP Buffs for money: No. Get your pseudo-pay-to-win crap out of here.
-Remaps for money: Why would you even need more than 1 per year after your first year in the game? Skills train so slow once you knock the core skills out. Just set your attributes to balance with your 3rd noob remap.
-Race/bloodline change for money: Pointless, because your race doesn't even matter after a month, and bloodline is purely cosmetic.
-Gender change for money: I have no opinion on this.
-Name change for money: This has been answered time and again with a resounding "NO".

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-05-18 20:20:00 UTC
Aiwha wrote:
HATS CCP



YOU NEED TO ADD HATS TO THE NEX STORE. THAT IS WHERE THE MT CASHCOW IS AT.


And other accessories.
I still want my Tom Baker scarf.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Jonas Xiamon
#28 - 2014-05-18 20:27:48 UTC
SP boosters? God no, that would be the death of this game. Honestly that would blow up worse than Incarna. I know I would be far more upset.

Racial/gender changes? Sure, why not? I think it should be a part of character recustomization.

Also they should continue working on WiS.

I usally write one of these and then change it a month later when I reread it and decide it sounds stupid.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#29 - 2014-05-18 20:50:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
Like SP buffs for money/plex or bonus remaps for money/plex


Or race/bloodline/gender change for money/plex.


People want these things and they have money to throw at you for providing it so why not?


Say a 100% SP gain buff for 30 days that cost 2 plex. You can't even argue that it causes any form of imbalance because you can already spend money on plexes. Plexes for isk and then use the isk to buy any 200 million SP character of your choice on the bazaar.


I'd even argue in favour of name changes for money/plex. People argue that a characters history is important in Eve. So add a big red line of text in the employment history that says "Changed name from X to X"
The exit is to the left, please take the non cosmetic, not to mention gamebreaking, parts of your ideas with you when you leave.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Marsha Mallow
#30 - 2014-05-18 20:52:55 UTC
Race/bloodline/gender - don't see why not, it's cosmetic and offers no advantage

SP/remaps = p2w, so nop

Names - yes, provided characters can be searched on both/notifications are sent to anyone with the character in contacts/watchlist, and there is a clear record of the change

All of these should be moderately expensive (2-5 plex minimum imo) and limited to once p/y, otherwise it'll be abused in various ways

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Grainsalt
Independent'R'Us
#31 - 2014-05-18 20:59:31 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
HATS CCP



YOU NEED TO ADD HATS TO THE NEX STORE. THAT IS WHERE THE MT CASHCOW IS AT.


And other accessories.
I still want my Tom Baker scarf.


I would pay for a Tom Baker scarf.
Jur Tissant
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2014-05-18 21:00:46 UTC
Please keep PLEX away from skills. No remaps for PLEX, definitely no skillpoints for PLEX. EVE treads a fine line between pay-to-win and pay-to-play, and this would send it tumbling in the wrong direction.
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2014-05-18 21:10:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarod Garamonde
Grainsalt wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
HATS CCP



YOU NEED TO ADD HATS TO THE NEX STORE. THAT IS WHERE THE MT CASHCOW IS AT.


And other accessories.
I still want my Tom Baker scarf.


I would pay for a Tom Baker scarf.


You never know. Scarves might happen for us.
I asked for a Guristas Ferox, and CCP delivered. I asked to have the Cop Comet back, and CCP delivered on that, too.

(**DISCLAIMER** to be fair, lots of other people were also asking for those two ship skins, so it might have not been my fault at all we got them)

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#34 - 2014-05-18 21:15:42 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
Black Panpher wrote:
There is a massive difference between people buying high SP chars on the bazaar and devaluing SP by adding boosters.
What a stupid comparison. -.-



How so? How is 40 million SP in a year game breaking but 200 million SP in a day not?


Because it didn't take a day to create a 200mil SP character to sell on the Bazaar. Someone still had to train that 200mil SP toon for it to be sold and bought.

Imagine how much more gamebreaking it would be if that 200mil SP toon took less than half the time because someone with money just used PLEX to boost it.


What's game breaking is allowing character sales in the first place.

Since CCP already screwed the pooch with that, they might as well sell SP boosts.

Mr Epeen Cool
HillBillyBushwacker HillFolk
Jupiter Roughriders
White Sky.
#35 - 2014-05-18 21:36:01 UTC
Already have SP boosters... called implants.

Spend more isk, get a nice pod, train faster and come to me so I can blow it up. You can spend more isk..ect...ect... ect
Marsha Mallow
#36 - 2014-05-18 21:47:24 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
What's game breaking is allowing character sales in the first place.

Since CCP already screwed the pooch with that, they might as well sell SP boosts.

Mr Epeen Cool

Speaking as someone who bought various characters early on, it's really not. You gain no meaningful advantage as SP is worthless in the hands of a noob, and in some ways create a sense of invincibility which is detrimental. You have to go back and learn core mechanics, and at a certain point you realise you're a fool (and a cheat) :P It also makes buying characters on gold sites less attractive, which is a win for CCP and those who would rather not get hacked repeatedly later on, or engage with RL criminals.

Focused, low SP alts can be traded for convenience to bypass some of the more mundane aspects of skilltraining. They're not out of reach of competent players, and they pay for themselves many times over. Again, in the hands of a competent player.

You can use this argument on Plex too as introducing a PTW or 'game-breaking' mechanic, but evidence suggests it's PTBGanked in your officer fit golem. Or more positively, pay moderate amounts not to have to grind as well as allowing a certain portion to sub for effort rather than real £$. Again, legal RMT pulls revenue away from gold sellers, benefits CCP, and provides content for the playerbase.

They may have misjudged allowing it to become Game of Alts™ but there are tertiary benefits to that too and a variety of perspectives.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#37 - 2014-05-18 21:59:37 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
What's game breaking is allowing character sales in the first place.

Since CCP already screwed the pooch with that, they might as well sell SP boosts.

Mr Epeen Cool

Speaking as someone who bought various characters early on, it's really not. You gain no meaningful advantage as SP is worthless in the hands of a noob, and in some ways create a sense of invincibility which is detrimental. You have to go back and learn core mechanics, and at a certain point you realise you're a fool (and a cheat) :P It also makes buying characters on gold sites less attractive, which is a win for CCP and those who would rather not get hacked repeatedly later on, or engage with RL criminals.

Focused, low SP alts can be traded for convenience to bypass some of the more mundane aspects of skilltraining. They're not out of reach of competent players, and they pay for themselves many times over. Again, in the hands of a competent player.

You can use this argument on Plex too as introducing a PTW or 'game-breaking' mechanic, but evidence suggests it's PTBGanked in your officer fit golem. Or more positively, pay moderate amounts not to have to grind as well as allowing a certain portion to sub for effort rather than real £$. Again, legal RMT pulls revenue away from gold sellers, benefits CCP, and provides content for the playerbase.

They may have misjudged allowing it to become Game of Alts™ but there are tertiary benefits to that too and a variety of perspectives.


I'll tell you how I see it.

In this game you can make pretty much anything. And then have it destroyed.

With one exception...characters. They just keep on keepin' on. Forever being handed from one player to the next. Not to new players as most think, either. High SP characters are primarily sold to experienced players.

I know this because it's what I do. Sell characters. It's my primary source of income and has been for years.

I'd be willing to have that source of income wiped from the game by having characters locked the the acct that created them. That's how strongly I feel it's slowly ruining the game.

As for ebaying accts because we can't legitimately buy characters any more. It's not our problem to deal with. It's CCPs. They'll figure out a solution sooner or later.

Mr Epeen Cool
Marsha Mallow
#38 - 2014-05-18 22:14:31 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
I know this because it's what I do. Sell characters. It's my primary source of income and has been for years.
Same. Given there's only a small number of focused traders, you might as well just post with your main :P

Mr Epeen wrote:
In this game you can make pretty much anything. And then have it destroyed.

With one exception...characters. They just keep on keepin' on. Forever being handed from one player to the next. Not to new players as most think, either. High SP characters are primarily sold to experienced players.

Those who retain their characters are immune to the 'everything should be destroyable' sentiment too. As do those who unsub, and I think players leaving the game and retaining their characters outnumber those who sell/pass them on quite significantly. What difference does it make if high SP alts sell to vets? Remove the ability and they'll just train alts, they are here for the long haul anyway.

Mr Epeen wrote:
I'd be willing to have that source of income wiped from the game by having characters locked the the acct that created them. That's how strongly I feel it's slowly ruining the game.

Can you elaborate?

Mr Epeen wrote:
As for ebaying accts because we can't legitimately buy characters any more. It's not our problem to deal with. It's CCPs. They'll figure out a solution sooner or later.

We'd deal with the consequences, so it would be our problem.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2014-05-18 22:15:48 UTC
Jur Tissant wrote:
Please keep PLEX away from skills. No remaps for PLEX, definitely no skillpoints for PLEX. EVE treads a fine line between pay-to-win and pay-to-play, and this would send it tumbling in the wrong direction.


It's actually a pretty broad line. The only AUR items in EVE are cosmetic. Nothing you can microtransaction gives you any kind of advantage, unless it's in the department of simply looking better than the other guy.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2014-05-18 22:20:51 UTC
Kick RAZOR

Enjoying the rain today? ;)