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[Kronos] Freighters and Jump Freighters Rebalance [Updated]

First post First post First post
Author
Dave stark
#901 - 2014-05-18 19:05:53 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Digger Pollard wrote:
Not to mention that a booster will not boost freighter ehp more than 1%-2%, which is negligible.

Incorrect. Even more so with these new numbers.


I wonder if the best use is gonna be armor rigs + armor boost + slave set now.


i think, based on quick maths and some one else's calculation of the bonus of a slave set... even a 3 trimark slave'd obelisk would have less armour HP than hull HP. there aren't even any t2 resists on an obelisk to offset that fact.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#902 - 2014-05-18 19:06:00 UTC
Even I know how to pick up cargo from a can and warp off in the same tick, eliminating any threat from a suspect timer. Yay for counter can-flipping.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#903 - 2014-05-18 19:06:04 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Digger Pollard wrote:


So with those answers in mind, I feel pretty confident than the only real risk in ganking is being worse than my dog at eve.



u say that as if avoiding ganks requires u to be better at playing the game than a dog.


so if you're playing better than a dog, the ehp nerfs shouldn't be an issue since ganks are trivial to avoid. yes?


Well if your dog is better than you, the ship might never undock because dogs have trouble with using mouse. If he manage to click the button, now you are **** out of luck and will die as you drift slowly away from the station because a dog definitely won't need less than a full day to select anything and then warp to is.
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#904 - 2014-05-18 19:06:07 UTC
Digger Pollard wrote:


Currently avoiding gank is 100% impossible even for gods. You can make it less profitable, but not avoid it. Losing a freighter, even an empty one, is bad enough to call it a huge risk to pilot one.


100 % impossible? I can avoid gank with minimum effort.
I can avoid almost all ganks with more effort. And webbing is only one of like 10 different tools you can use to protect your freighter. Alas people who think "My freighter is empty, therefore I should INVULNVERABLE!" are so utterly wrong. If people want to kill you for any reason what-so-ever they can probably muster the effort to do so. And if you know they are coming for you, you can prepare yourselves in a variety of ways.

There is no mother-of-all counter, on both sides. That's how it works.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#905 - 2014-05-18 19:07:27 UTC
Digger Pollard wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Digger Pollard wrote:
Currently avoiding gank is 100% impossible even for gods.
So how do you explain its monumental rarity and how people can go through their entire account lives without being victims of (or even seeing) one?


Somebody other than Tippia should ask me this so I could answer.


So how do you explain its monumental rarity and how people can go through their entire account lives without being victims of (or even seeing) one?
Dave stark
#906 - 2014-05-18 19:07:48 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Digger Pollard wrote:


So with those answers in mind, I feel pretty confident than the only real risk in ganking is being worse than my dog at eve.



u say that as if avoiding ganks requires u to be better at playing the game than a dog.


so if you're playing better than a dog, the ehp nerfs shouldn't be an issue since ganks are trivial to avoid. yes?


Well if your dog is better than you, the ship might never undock because dogs have trouble with using mouse. If he manage to click the button, now you are **** out of luck and will die as you drift slowly away from the station because a dog definitely won't need less than a full day to select anything and then warp to is.


are you calling Mr. Fuzzywiggles stupid?
how dare you.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#907 - 2014-05-18 19:09:58 UTC
Digger Pollard wrote:
Tippia wrote:
So how do you explain its monumental rarity and how people can go through their entire account lives without being victims of (or even seeing) one?

Somebody other than Tippia should ask me this so I could answer. I have no answer.
Yeah, that's what happens when you pull such nonsensical ideas out of nowhere.

By the way, would you like to venture a guess at how much a Charon — decidedly not an armour tanker — benefits from having armour boosting in the system? Would you like to revise your 1–2% number for something more realistic?
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#908 - 2014-05-18 19:10:15 UTC
Digger Pollard wrote:

Right after you tell us how booster ship boosts hull tank of a freighter.

...all right, I'll tell you anyway - you fit a ship scanner with a cargo scanner on your NPC scanning alt you scan freighters with. With amount of non-hull tank on a freighter, it's gotta be active all the time or it'll be too late. Not to mention that a booster will not boost freighter ehp more than 1%-2%, which is negligible.


more like 10% (will be more now that freighters are getting more hp into armour and shield) and logi reps.



Digger Pollard wrote:

Currently avoiding gank is 100% impossible even for gods. You can make it less profitable, but not avoid it. Losing a freighter, even an empty one, is bad enough to call it a huge risk to pilot one.


Hard to prove that. all i can say is i freighter a lot, and have never once been successfully ganked.

Dave Stark wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Digger Pollard wrote:


So with those answers in mind, I feel pretty confident than the only real risk in ganking is being worse than my dog at eve.



u say that as if avoiding ganks requires u to be better at playing the game than a dog.


so if you're playing better than a dog, the ehp nerfs shouldn't be an issue since ganks are trivial to avoid. yes?


without trying to paint a bulls eye on my head, i intend to fit 3 cargo rigs on all my freighters. I expect the methods i use to keep myself safe now will continue to keep me safe.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#909 - 2014-05-18 19:10:21 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Digger Pollard wrote:


So with those answers in mind, I feel pretty confident than the only real risk in ganking is being worse than my dog at eve.



u say that as if avoiding ganks requires u to be better at playing the game than a dog.


so if you're playing better than a dog, the ehp nerfs shouldn't be an issue since ganks are trivial to avoid. yes?


Well if your dog is better than you, the ship might never undock because dogs have trouble with using mouse. If he manage to click the button, now you are **** out of luck and will die as you drift slowly away from the station because a dog definitely won't need less than a full day to select anything and then warp to is.


are you calling Mr. Fuzzywiggles stupid?
how dare you.


He's not stupid, it's mostly a problem with using a mouse with PAWS!
Mag's
Azn Empire
#910 - 2014-05-18 19:12:21 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
without trying to paint a bulls eye on my head, i intend to fit 3 cargo rigs on all my freighters. I expect the methods i use to keep myself safe now will continue to keep me safe.
Jots that info down. Twisted

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Vhelnik Cojoin
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#911 - 2014-05-18 19:12:49 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
The average month sees around 30 to 40 ganks. Now, we dont work out the chance based on per pilot but per trip and we do not include people who made themselves a target by stuffing billions in the hold. There are millions of trips made by Freighters each and every month. Over the span of the last decade, taking into account the number of freighter trips made the numbers work out as being much lower than being struck by lightning. Granted you are still more likely to be ganked than win the lottery.

This is what you ignored.


I'm terribly sorry Mr. baltec1,

Statistics is an exact scientific branch of mathematics. You do not get to change your statements later, or add qualifications when convenient, just to try and squirm your way out of a pinch.

We are trying to determine whether your original statement regarding the chance of getting suicide ganked as a freighter pilot, as compared to being struck by lightening in real life, is true or false.

Now. Do you concede that freighter pilots in NPC corporations are being suicide ganked in HiSec, even with no cargo? Yes or no. This question seemed important to you, so I need an answer.

Have you Communicated with your fellow capsuleers today? It is good for the EvE-oconomy and o-kay for you.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#912 - 2014-05-18 19:15:31 UTC
Vhelnik Cojoin wrote:


Now. Do you concede that freighter pilots in NPC corporations are being suicide ganked in HiSec, even with no cargo? Yes or no. This question seemed important to you, so I need an answer.


Sure they do, its just very very rare.
Digger Pollard
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#913 - 2014-05-18 19:15:40 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
So how do you explain its monumental rarity and how people can go through their entire account lives without being victims of (or even seeing) one?

First, there is no rarity, just over-estimation of how many freighters actually pass per hour. I remember sitting for an hour on a Jita gate during a peak, gates were closed, and in an hour I've seen only about 30 or so freighters hanging there with me.
Second, there are easier targets, namely T1 industrial ships people use to move stuff which doesn't require a freighter. I won't argue about those people being close or not to my dog, but as long as they exist, they just pay more isk/click(wanted to write "effort" but we're talking about ganking...) for gankers, and so they remain primary target.
Third is gankers being simply too lazy. Why should they gank a freighter, which requires to multibox 7 accs, when they can multibox 2 catalysts and gank a miner instead? Ganking a miner is much easier than freighter, they are abundant, so if you just want easy tears, you go for them instead.

All in all, I am simply surprised how bad gankers are. They are crying to make freighters as easy to gank as miners, and it looks like they are succeeding.
Dave stark
#914 - 2014-05-18 19:16:02 UTC
Vhelnik Cojoin wrote:
Statistics is an exact scientific branch of mathematics.

I'm so glad about that. I'd absolutely hate to have ended up with a BA instead of a BSc. nobody likes art students.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#915 - 2014-05-18 19:16:28 UTC
Vhelnik Cojoin wrote:


Statistics is an exact scientific branch of mathematics.


quoting, and if i have space, this will go in my sig. ur shame will last till the end of time.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#916 - 2014-05-18 19:18:08 UTC
How about addressing the fact that freighter and especially JF pilots are more likely the least affected by such a change since they'll just pass the increased cost on to everybody else?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#917 - 2014-05-18 19:19:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Digger Pollard wrote:
First, there is no rarity, just over-estimation of how many freighters actually pass per hour.
Do you have any statistics to support this assertion?

Quote:
Second, there are easier targets
Third is gankers being simply too lazy.
So you're saying that it's actually very rare.

Quote:
They are crying to make freighters as easy to gank as miners, and it looks like they are succeeding.
Do you have any examples of this actually happening?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#918 - 2014-05-18 19:19:33 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Vhelnik Cojoin wrote:


Statistics is an exact scientific branch of mathematics.


quoting, and if i have space, this will go in my sig. ur shame will last till the end of time.

Have you ever taken a course in statistics? Do you know what a significance test is? These things aren't open to interpretation any more so than any other branch of mathematics.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#919 - 2014-05-18 19:20:17 UTC
Digger Pollard wrote:
First, there is no rarity, just over-estimation of how many freighters actually pass per hour. I remember sitting for an hour on a Jita gate during a peak, gates were closed, and in an hour I've seen only about 30 or so freighters hanging there with me.


And how many of those have been ganked?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#920 - 2014-05-18 19:20:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Repost. (For answers)
Digger Pollard wrote:
First, there is no rarity, just over-estimation of how many freighters actually pass per hour.
Do you have any statistics to support this assertion?

Quote:
Second, there are easier targets
Third is gankers being simply too lazy.
So you're saying that it's actually very rare.

Quote:
They are crying to make freighters as easy to gank as miners, and it looks like they are succeeding.
Do you have any examples of this actually happening?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.