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Dev Blog: Tiptoe Through the Tooltips

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Author
Seismic Stan
Freebooted Junkworks
#841 - 2014-05-18 17:23:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Seismic Stan
I'd like to add my voice to the torrent of dissatisfaction at the implementation choices behind these tooltips.

I am entirely in favour of features that will make EVE more accessible and a more pleasant experience. In many circumstances, the cryptic nature of EVE's interface does need further explanation. The introduction of contextual tooltips in the Inferno NPE was certainly a step in the right direction.

However, with the best will in the world, I feel the recent implementation was far too 'one size fits all' and tried to solve every problem with one solution. My personal use case has been negatively impacted by the changes and I entirely empathise with those who are frustrated.

Whilst many of the tooltips are informative, the in-space element has added more boxes and scroll bars where I'd hope there would be a more elegant solution. The last thing I want is more text and windows in my way when all I'm trying to do is interact with and explore the game environment (besides, if I wanted an EVE text adventure, I'd play this again.)

I don't doubt that with further iteration, this system may be streamlined into something approaching an improvement on the previous system, but it did seem like an odd decision to roll it out as is. I was quite happy with the interaction with in-space brackets and often fly without the overview (yeah, I know, I'm 'doing it wrong'). Questions have quite rightly been asked.

That said, I appreciate the effort and am a little disappointed that we're once again at a player-developer impasse. The tunnel vision and lack of respect evident from some quarters always seems to bring us to this point. I wrote more about this in a blogpost, Tips for Tools.

Best of luck to the devs in giving the players what they want.
Cat Harkness
Twilight Labs
The Serenity Initiative
#842 - 2014-05-18 17:56:18 UTC
Since the last patch, I have noticed the tool-tips are popping up way to fast. Something must have changed in the delay,.

I saw a post about adding a delay change option, and that would be great. It would also solve the problem for the people who want an off switch. Just make the delay setting able to be set to 5 sec or more.


I am happy with the new tool-tips, and look forward for more of them. They save clicking when pilots want info, and that is always better.

Cat Harkness

CEO

Twilight Labs

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#843 - 2014-05-18 18:02:31 UTC
A great tool tip would be in the mission window we need one on the Faction icon that gives us the type of damage dealt.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Seismic Stan
Freebooted Junkworks
#844 - 2014-05-18 18:20:36 UTC
When manually following the yellow brackets along my autopilot path, it would be useful if they were given priority in the scrollable pop-up window. Having to mouse over the bracket cluster, move the mouse to the resulting pop-up then scroll through to find the bracket I wish to interact with is laborious.

Even with this suggested change, I feel it would be a less intuitive process than previously existed.
Narjack
CragCO
#845 - 2014-05-18 19:00:24 UTC
When doing pi and selecting a processing plant to decide on which product to make, I can't see the list because its blocked by the tool tip giant black box. Its really a pain.
Eurynome Mangeiri
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#846 - 2014-05-18 19:27:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Eurynome Mangeiri
Neutrino Sunset wrote:
Original brackets in space are back, which is good. but I'm having an issue configuring their display back to how they originally were. (Thoughout this post opening HTML tags have an extra trailing space to circumvent the forum HTML blocking).

If I go to Overview Settings, Ships tab, and set the following configuration, (where the asterisks represent the checked options).

* "" Pilot Name ""
* "< fontsize=11>< color=0xfff5deb3>< b>" Ship Type "< /b>< /color>< /fontsize>"
"" Alliance Ticker ""
"" Corp Ticker ""
* "" Ship Name ""
"" Additional Text

Then inspace brackets are displayed like this:

[] PilotName ShipType< /b>< /color>< /fontsize> PilotName's Minmatar Shuttle 12km

Where PilotName is plain format, ShipType uses the format specified in the HTML, but with "PilotName's Minmatar Shuttle 12km" also using the format specified for Ship Type and the trailing HTML being output to the bracket text obviously also being incorrect.

The only reason I'm having to reconfigure this manually at all is because the bracket output formatting has been incorrect/corrupted ever since the patch which introduced the new tooltips.

It looks as if the configuration mechanism is straightforward enough with simple HTML pre and post formatting tags, but either I'm misunderstanding how to use it properly, or it's bolloxed, or both.

this is fully broken for years, the best way to actually achieve something with that is to edit manually the XML and import it
again

i also had custom formatting of this part and it broke with the patch, had to make another one in emergency since whole corp is using it.... and it was impossible to come up with something close to the custom,n so had to revert to the original one....
Alternative Splicing
Captain Content and The Contenteers
#847 - 2014-05-18 19:48:56 UTC
Okay, can we roll back the rest of the changes too? I'm 50% happier with the tooltips being removed from space, but the rest of the changes are still intrusive and making playing this game a real pain.
Neutrino Sunset
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#848 - 2014-05-18 20:42:21 UTC
Eurynome Mangeiri wrote:
this is fully broken for years, the best way to actually achieve something with that is to edit manually the XML and import it
again

i also had custom formatting of this part and it broke with the patch, had to make another one in emergency since whole corp is using it.... and it was impossible to come up with something close to the custom,n so had to revert to the original one....


Ah many thanks, it's no easy matter keeping track of what they've just broken and what's been broken for years.
Angelica Everstar
#849 - 2014-05-18 22:11:18 UTC
STILL don't like the new tool tips - PLEASE PLEASE make a slider or an off button Shocked

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Huang Mo
Tianxia Inc
#850 - 2014-05-18 23:58:04 UTC
I've found another problem: In the contract interface, when you're creating a new contract, the tooltip pops up in the middle of the item list and obscures your view of the information you need most: Number of items and volume.

It slows down creating contracts that have to stay within a certain volume limit.

I am not sure if a tooltip is needed at all in that interface. The information it gives is the same item information you get a lot of other places in Eve and if you really need to know what an item is, then the info icon is readily available.
TurAmarth ElRandir
Hiigaran Bounty Hunters Inc.
#851 - 2014-05-19 00:58:05 UTC
I'll add my 0.2 ISK...

PLEASE give us a delay slider. That's ALL you need to do to make this work for everyone. Noobs NEED this, most vets really REALLY don't... Gods know I don't. Please just allow us to change the delay from say, '0' seconds oh say, '20' seconds... this wouldallows us all to interact with the Tooltips as we each feel the need, not be forced to accept a change that really can be very negative in certain gameplay.

Plus, do we really need tooltips that actually just echo info already on screen? I mean seriously....

And... Grr Goons... cause, you know...

TurAmarth ElRandir Anoikis Merc, Salvager, Logibro and Unrepentant Blogger Fly Wreckless and see you in the Sky =/|)= http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/

Felicity Love
Doomheim
#852 - 2014-05-19 02:18:44 UTC
"OFF" button in the Prefs window, pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaassssssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee... it's getting annoying. Ugh

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

Kenneth Endashi
Kor-Azor Slave Holdings
#853 - 2014-05-19 12:37:33 UTC
I found another problem.

In the cargo scan result window, tool-tips pop up, blocking my view of the contents of my scan. This happens when I mouse over the window and attempt to scroll the mouse wheel to see everything in the scan result. The tool-tips are usually a large paragraph in a black box with the item description. I don't really need to see that on the fly, so much as I really just need to see what's in the window with a second or two of scrolling. I only need to see what items are in there. I can worry about the details later, but those tool-tips are giving me anxiety.
Marcel Brinalle
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#854 - 2014-05-19 17:53:26 UTC
thank you for fixing exploration. much appreciated
Kenneth Endashi
Kor-Azor Slave Holdings
#855 - 2014-05-19 19:56:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenneth Endashi
Seismic Stan wrote:
I'd like to add my voice to the torrent of dissatisfaction at the implementation choices behind these tooltips.

I am entirely in favour of features that will make EVE more accessible and a more pleasant experience. In many circumstances, the cryptic nature of EVE's interface does need further explanation. The introduction of contextual tooltips in the Inferno NPE was certainly a step in the right direction.

However, with the best will in the world, I feel the recent implementation was far too 'one size fits all' and tried to solve every problem with one solution. My personal use case has been negatively impacted by the changes and I entirely empathise with those who are frustrated.

Whilst many of the tooltips are informative, the in-space element has added more boxes and scroll bars where I'd hope there would be a more elegant solution. The last thing I want is more text and windows in my way when all I'm trying to do is interact with and explore the game environment (besides, if I wanted an EVE text adventure, I'd play this again.)

I don't doubt that with further iteration, this system may be streamlined into something approaching an improvement on the previous system, but it did seem like an odd decision to roll it out as is. I was quite happy with the interaction with in-space brackets and often fly without the overview (yeah, I know, I'm 'doing it wrong'). Questions have quite rightly been asked.

That said, I appreciate the effort and am a little disappointed that we're once again at a player-developer impasse. The tunnel vision and lack of respect evident from some quarters always seems to bring us to this point. I wrote more about this in a blogpost, Tips for Tools.

Best of luck to the devs in giving the players what they want.

Thank you for the eloquence and respectful delivery of your observations. I like CCP. I started playing the game not because I love science fiction (which I do), but because I heard they respect their community in a way few other game companies do. And I know they like us, or they would not attempt to improve the game. I hope they don't see the litany of responses to this thread and rationalize it as a kind of 'vocal minority.'

There are always going to be anti-social creeps playing videogames, so I think it's a shame rude behavior managed to elicit stronger responses from developers than carefully worded posts such as your own.

I am new to the game, and even I find the tool-tips more distracting than helpful. I have contributed my findings to this thread as well, in the hopes CCP is still listening to us. I don't know if they are, but they say they are, so I continue to try to help in the hopes of them helping us back. Strangely, there is an 'us and them.'

I've never seen that EVE text adventure game. Thanks for that, too.
Salmon Hands
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#856 - 2014-05-19 22:50:15 UTC
I would like to add my two isk in this....I think this "black box" around space clusters is horrible. Might be good for the new player...but for people that already know how to navigate around...this feature is horrid. Please give us the option to go back to the way it was.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#857 - 2014-05-20 10:39:32 UTC
Why are there no tool tips on scan results any more?

Is it really so difficult to leave something intact that is working as intended?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Penny Ernaga
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#858 - 2014-05-20 18:00:16 UTC
Just undocked, and the horrible popup boxes in space are still there Shocked .... how long shall we stay docked? ... honestly, it`s getting more and more frustrating ...

I had the impression we would get this mess sorted out soon. Dear developers, give us some news please, show us some light at the end of the tunnel!
Little Chubby
Atrocity.
#859 - 2014-05-20 18:15:17 UTC
Penny Ernaga wrote:

I had the impression we would get this mess sorted out soon. Dear developers, give us some news please, show us some light at the end of the tunnel!


The light's there.

You just can't click to activate it because the giant box of death is still in the way.
Josef Djugashvilis
#860 - 2014-05-20 20:56:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
May we please have a tool-tip which points to the - switch off tool-tips option - thank you

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