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[Kronos] More lowsec K-K wormholes

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QT McWhiskers
EdgeGamers
#181 - 2014-05-16 18:15:40 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
I say make the wormhole description say, "this is a wormhole. It goes somewhere and there's no return. Deal with it."

Then make all wormholes one way and auto-collapse after 30 minutes.

This would make wormhole activities epic because you'd have to go prepared and take everything you need with your fleet.

Proper adventures for the properly brave.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

Just stop.
Amak Boma
Dragon Factory
xX SERENITY Xx
#182 - 2014-05-16 19:16:54 UTC
well i dear CCP i noticed that in rookie systems wormholes also spawn , on deepari ahd few wormholes and few times had to rescue stranded rookie pilots (mostly magnates) well wormholes should not spawn in these systems .

if they have to spawn there should be some sort of training wormhole so rookie pilots wont be instantly destroyed when accidently warps into one of combat sites and the training wormhole can show new pilots what they are, how they works. maybe some tutorial should be handy its just my idea
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#183 - 2014-05-17 02:12:18 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Any chance of these wormholes having a means of identifying just how far away they go? E.g. a dark red wormhole's exit would be within ~X lightyear radius, whereas a bright blue/white wormhole would exit, far, far, far away.

I ask because jumping into random wormholes gets a bit tedious.

Or maybe a skill/module that provides some analysis of the wormhole's exit, on the grounds we've had enough experience with wormholes to tease out some of the science behind them?




You do realise that already you can tell the k-space region a wormhole exits into just by looking at it?

I haven't bothered putting up a k-space colour guide, like I really ought to have done already, but suffice to say you can tell if the wormhole goes to Khanid, or The Force or The Citadel, etc. Minmatar regions are all more or less the same, so good luck with that. You can even tell where in nullsec your wormhole exits, if you are cluey enough.

As for this change, i heartily endorse it.

There's a lot of QQ from the lowsec explorer crowd, concerned they will be drowned in wads of wormholes. Well, tough cookies, bros. You already have to deal with plenty of bloody drone DED plexes, which no one does because they never drop aanything and are hardly worth it for the abysmal ISK. Complain about that, why don't you?

There's a lot of talk about force projection. Ha. You cannot rely on wormholes for force projection. This will simply encourage more roaming and more ways to shortcut a roam in or out of null around heavily camped systems and/or possibly in or out of chokepoints and bottlenecked pockets.

The ONLY effect may be on cyno jammed systems in sov null. With enough work and a bit of luck you could yolo 2 carriers, 50 cruisers and a dread through into a cyno jammed system via a N944 or S199 (likely with a midpoint cyno or two) to get caps in past the jammer. The chances of this happening may have increased somewhat, but it will still be a game for the patient, not the time-starved.

What I wonder is whether this will reduce the percentage of X702 and R943 into low-end J space, and/or the percentage of transient N432 into C5 space? Chances of an answer would be close to zero I assume.

CCP Greyscale, you could also, without great disruption to anything, increase A641 chances for highsec-highsec wormholes, which would allow eg, more people to get to/from Solitude. :P

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Lemmih AI
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#184 - 2014-05-17 06:05:52 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
I haven't bothered putting up a k-space colour guide, like I really ought to have done already, but suffice to say you can tell if the wormhole goes to Khanid, or The Force or The Citadel, etc. Minmatar regions are all more or less the same, so good luck with that. You can even tell where in nullsec your wormhole exits, if you are cluey enough.

http://i.imgur.com/NdLDTVL.jpg
You can easily make a positive identification of the destination region just be using the "look at" function and zooming all the way in. I will admit that there are a few sets of regions that look very similar, though.

I think the only thing that's an issue here is that statement is only true with graphics turned up, as I believe that certain settings prevent seeing through the hole. You could range limit some sort of assistance for those people, but does forcing someone to come within 100km (the range required for this technique) really change anything? You warp into the sig within that range after you scan it down, anyway.
Khan'matar
HEK CARTEL
#185 - 2014-05-18 03:12:47 UTC
Time to take a swing at this ..

It's not so much the number of WH's but rather that there is no common use or market for finding or owning their short lifespan. Altering the number is simple enough. However spend an hour with a muse then..

Quote:

Astrometrics should have the potential to be its own profession rather than a means to other ends such as mining (in all its forms), hacking & salvaging.


What the Cartel wants:

- A Wormhole market. Somehow being able to sell what you Map. Go from finder's keepers to finder's fee.
- Corp / Alliance Astrometrics Database - flexible, dynamic and self-maintaining to a degree.
- Integrate the WH routes accessible to you with built-in pilot navigation.
- Modules to measure the stability of a Wormhole that provide an estimate of its duration without accounting for mass disturbances.
- A POS structure that finds these things, feed it probes and it maps your system. Maybe based on Alien Technology.
- Being able to hack those SOEs and extract routes.

These are only a few of hundreds of improvements gleaned from running a space bar..
.. and a dentistry school for Amarr in the back.







Cho Wong
Fraternity Holding
Fraternity.
#186 - 2014-05-18 11:10:37 UTC
well can we have more nullsec k-k wormholes
Orla- King-Griffin
#187 - 2014-05-18 11:24:41 UTC
Lemmih AI wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
I haven't bothered putting up a k-space colour guide, like I really ought to have done already, but suffice to say you can tell if the wormhole goes to Khanid, or The Force or The Citadel, etc. Minmatar regions are all more or less the same, so good luck with that. You can even tell where in nullsec your wormhole exits, if you are cluey enough.

http://i.imgur.com/NdLDTVL.jpg
You can easily make a positive identification of the destination region just be using the "look at" function and zooming all the way in. I will admit that there are a few sets of regions that look very similar, though.

I think the only thing that's an issue here is that statement is only true with graphics turned up, as I believe that certain settings prevent seeing through the hole. You could range limit some sort of assistance for those people, but does forcing someone to come within 100km (the range required for this technique) really change anything? You warp into the sig within that range after you scan it down, anyway.

Shockedthanks for that Jpeg, that will get a fair bit of use.

Ah shite...
Theon Severasse
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#188 - 2014-05-18 11:45:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Theon Severasse
Does increasing the chance of these spawning decrease the chance of other types of wormhole spawning?

Same again, but in regard to other types of sites?



EDIT: This was already answered
Niart Gunn
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#189 - 2014-05-18 17:05:40 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
[Edit] Also, to be clear, the thing that I was (very much tongue-in-cheek) suggesting was "silly" was *more* C6-Null wormholes, when there aren't any in the first place :) The request for more w-space connectivity in general is something we'd very much like to respond to with changes, as we think it's a good idea.


Am I mistaken? I'm pretty sure we get direct-to-nullsec wormholes from the c6 now and again. Or was that when we were in a c5?


I double-checked before making the earlier post :) C5s, yes, C6s should only connect to w-space.


I am not sure how you have double-checked that, but I remember very clearly how I scanned down both C140s (to low) as well as Z142s (to null) in C6 wormhole space. Note that these are the same designations that the wandering C5->Kspace holes have, but I am very certain that they do exist in C6 space as well. I would imagine people living in a C6 could confirm this.

I will provide a screenshot the next time I encounter one of these.
TurAmarth ElRandir
Hiigaran Bounty Hunters Inc.
#190 - 2014-05-18 18:27:03 UTC
Querns wrote:
Klarion Sythis wrote:
Querns wrote:
Regarding the "small fleet" angle of these holes, is it possible to mass-limit these types of holes so that they are primarily used for pvp, instead of as logistics shortcuts for freighters?

They're already mass limited as with all holes. Any specific limits to prevent specific activities?


Sorry; I should have clarified. I'm talking "maximum size" restrictions, similar to how, e.g., C1s only allow small ships.


Huh... This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. who doesn't even understand 'Mass Limits'... some foremost authority. I hate know it all's... who don't.

Anyhoo... All for more K-to-K as long as W-to-K, K-to-W and W-to-W current spawn rate / mass & time limits aren't messed with...

As for K to K, which strangely I am not all that familiar with them after 3.5 years of almost daily scanning and jumping holes... I have done a quick search and can't find any info on K-to-K mass & time limits... But I would assume Hi, Lo, Null could be equated to C1-2 = Hi, C3-4 = Lo and C5-6 =Null in re mass/time limits? that would be balanced I feel.

TurAmarth ElRandir Anoikis Merc, Salvager, Logibro and Unrepentant Blogger Fly Wreckless and see you in the Sky =/|)= http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/
TurAmarth ElRandir
Hiigaran Bounty Hunters Inc.
#191 - 2014-05-18 18:33:29 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Enteron Anabente wrote:
What are the current numbers (i.e., how much of an increase is this)? And can you give the numbers for hisec and nullsec, for comparison? I don't think I've ever seen these published before.


Yeah, we generally don't talk about numbers for this sort of thing, I'm already out on a limb with what I've posted :)


WRT people concerned about mass limits, these are just more of the holes that are already there, so they take the same limits as current lowsec holes, and as far as freighters go, we're generally of the opinion that people trying to use lowsec wormholes for freighter logistics is a good thing for lowsec PvP :)


OK, then I am onboard with this.

except, Grr Goons, you know... the usual.

TurAmarth ElRandir Anoikis Merc, Salvager, Logibro and Unrepentant Blogger Fly Wreckless and see you in the Sky =/|)= http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/
TurAmarth ElRandir
Hiigaran Bounty Hunters Inc.
#192 - 2014-05-18 18:51:57 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Ab'del Abu wrote:
@CCP: Wormholers have been begging for more holes / better connectivity in wh-space for a long time now. Do you have any stance on that? we needs love as well ...


Yup, we talked about this at at least one of the wormhole roundtables at Fanfest. Definitely on board with the idea, but our immediate plans are "finish industry" :)


Oh dear gods in heaven NO! PLease just fix POSes... You know the old adage Greyscale?? If it aint broke, DON'T fix it!

Grr Goons cause... you know.

TurAmarth ElRandir Anoikis Merc, Salvager, Logibro and Unrepentant Blogger Fly Wreckless and see you in the Sky =/|)= http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#193 - 2014-05-19 00:30:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
Last Wolf wrote:
Correct me if there is a way that I am unaware of to do this (I rarely scan for WH's due to the reason I am about to post)

Is it possible differentiate a WH sig from all other sigs? I hate spending 30 minutes scanning down every sig in 2 or 3 systems just to find out that NONE of them are wormholes. I feel like 8 probes launched at 64AU that pick up 20 sigs should be able to tell me which ones are wormholes without having to scan each and every single one down.


Use your system scanner with no probes. Those big red balls clustered around celestials are the stuff you're interested in. The big red balls that are more than 4AU away from a celestial are wormholes.

Just dump your 4AU radius precision formation on top of the celestial and you'll have at least 25% hits on the nearby signatures. Thankfully for people who think that scanning is tedious, CCP decided that the system inventory provided by DSPs was game-breaking, so they gave us a more complete system inventory in the form of the system scanner on the overview.

TL;DR version: stuff within 4AU of a celestial is far less likely to be a wormhole. Stuff more than 4AU from a celestial is only going to be a wormhole.

PS: I'm not really as bitter as I sound. The grav sites were moved to anomalies so I don't even have to exert any effort to discover the 250M ISK large hedbergite deposits in hi sec anymore.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Dav Varan
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#194 - 2014-05-19 11:56:05 UTC
Querns wrote:
Regarding the "small fleet" angle of these holes, is it possible to mass-limit these types of holes so that they are primarily used for pvp, instead of as logistics shortcuts for freighters?


How about sandbox.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#195 - 2014-05-19 14:20:17 UTC
Niart Gunn wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
[Edit] Also, to be clear, the thing that I was (very much tongue-in-cheek) suggesting was "silly" was *more* C6-Null wormholes, when there aren't any in the first place :) The request for more w-space connectivity in general is something we'd very much like to respond to with changes, as we think it's a good idea.


Am I mistaken? I'm pretty sure we get direct-to-nullsec wormholes from the c6 now and again. Or was that when we were in a c5?


I double-checked before making the earlier post :) C5s, yes, C6s should only connect to w-space.


I am not sure how you have double-checked that, but I remember very clearly how I scanned down both C140s (to low) as well as Z142s (to null) in C6 wormhole space. Note that these are the same designations that the wandering C5->Kspace holes have, but I am very certain that they do exist in C6 space as well. I would imagine people living in a C6 could confirm this.

I will provide a screenshot the next time I encounter one of these.


...well bugger. That is a bug that has existed since 2009, apparently. The C6 region is (unintentionally) included in the C5-K distribution.


Whoops.


I will fix this. Sorry for the screwup, and double-sorry for teasing people suggesting to add more. Entirely my bad.
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#196 - 2014-05-19 16:30:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Bohneik Itohn
CCP Greyscale wrote:


...well bugger. That is a bug that has existed since 2009, apparently. The C6 region is (unintentionally) included in the C5-K distribution.


Whoops.


I will fix this. Sorry for the screwup, and double-sorry for teasing people suggesting to add more. Entirely my bad.



Epic... Even Wormhole bugs are lost in time and space for untold years....

Edit: Oh, and I'm all for more K-K WH's in low, anything that helps me cover more ground when I'm trying to refill the piggy bank is welcome.

And since we're fixing bugs with WH's, can we get a fix for the zombie WH's that remain after the WH should have decayed from time? You know, the ones that trap you in that traffic control jump sequence and spit you out in the same system you entered from, polarized?

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
okst666
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#197 - 2014-05-19 18:33:51 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:


...well bugger. That is a bug that has existed since 2009, apparently. The C6 region is (unintentionally) included in the C5-K distribution.


Whoops.


I will fix this. Sorry for the screwup, and double-sorry for teasing people suggesting to add more. Entirely my bad.


Lol, I bet there are some C6-Corps that **** blood tonight...

[X] < Nail here for new monitor
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#198 - 2014-05-20 02:14:42 UTC
Lemmih AI wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
I haven't bothered putting up a k-space colour guide, like I really ought to have done already, but suffice to say you can tell if the wormhole goes to Khanid, or The Force or The Citadel, etc. Minmatar regions are all more or less the same, so good luck with that. You can even tell where in nullsec your wormhole exits, if you are cluey enough.

http://i.imgur.com/NdLDTVL.jpg
You can easily make a positive identification of the destination region just be using the "look at" function and zooming all the way in. I will admit that there are a few sets of regions that look very similar, though.

I think the only thing that's an issue here is that statement is only true with graphics turned up, as I believe that certain settings prevent seeing through the hole. You could range limit some sort of assistance for those people, but does forcing someone to come within 100km (the range required for this technique) really change anything? You warp into the sig within that range after you scan it down, anyway.


Thanks. I was totally unaware of this. Or this. But what I wasn't intending to do, was what you linked, because the appearance of the nebula change significantly with the distortion as seen through the wormhole colour itself. Which clearly I am not pointing out since this is International Sarcasm Day and I am an absolute dolt.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Lemmih AI
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#199 - 2014-05-20 04:16:23 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
But what I wasn't intending to do, was what you linked, because the appearance of the nebula change significantly with the distortion as seen through the wormhole colour itself. Which clearly I am not pointing out since this is International Sarcasm Day and I am an absolute dolt.

http://http://imgur.com/R1z8w67 is pretty obviously a WH to Feythobolis, distortion or no. It's not the colors that my image is identifying, but the details.
Nox52
Pterygopalatine
#200 - 2014-05-20 06:58:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Nox52
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Niart Gunn wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
[Edit] Also, to be clear, the thing that I was (very much tongue-in-cheek) suggesting was "silly" was *more* C6-Null wormholes, when there aren't any in the first place :) The request for more w-space connectivity in general is something we'd very much like to respond to with changes, as we think it's a good idea.


Am I mistaken? I'm pretty sure we get direct-to-nullsec wormholes from the c6 now and again. Or was that when we were in a c5?


I double-checked before making the earlier post :) C5s, yes, C6s should only connect to w-space.


I am not sure how you have double-checked that, but I remember very clearly how I scanned down both C140s (to low) as well as Z142s (to null) in C6 wormhole space. Note that these are the same designations that the wandering C5->Kspace holes have, but I am very certain that they do exist in C6 space as well. I would imagine people living in a C6 could confirm this.

I will provide a screenshot the next time I encounter one of these.


...well bugger. That is a bug that has existed since 2009, apparently. The C6 region is (unintentionally) included in the C5-K distribution.


Whoops.


I will fix this. Sorry for the screwup, and double-sorry for teasing people suggesting to add more. Entirely my bad.



Wait a second just to clarify. You're saying there should be no ls or ns wh connections direct to c6 space, that it was a bug and that it will be fixed so there will be no ls or ns connections to c6 space in the future?