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Dev Blog: Tiptoe Through the Tooltips

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Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
#821 - 2014-05-17 17:00:04 UTC
Eurynome Mangeiri wrote:
Grendell wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

We definitely underestimated the impact of making changes to this piece of UI


I wouldn't normally talk smack, but I think this is an issue and a clear sign you guys really don't play the game enough. This is literally one of the most important pieces of the UI. It's how we can visually see our most immediate environment.

What this change did was, basically add a pair of glasses on to somebody wearing contact lenses. It's intrusive, redundant and only made things worse.


tbh, even without playing, a single test would have showed the issue

1- undock
2- pass mouse over a group of celestial

time required: 2 minutes

this means that CCP didn't even fired a single client with the update prior to the release.......CCP QA at his best


Shocking really.Sad

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Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#822 - 2014-05-17 17:23:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
This is an old problem.

Remember scanning before Odyssey? If you had the misfortune of getting your probes in a tight cluster near a dense group of celestials, you were launched into an infuriating minigame where you had to find the angle necessary to get at the arrows to move your probes without having the Wall of White Text pop up and intercept your mouse clicks. I don't remember it fondly.

The problem isn't boxes in space--the whole UI is boxes in space. The problem is that there can be so much information crammed into a very small area in the open-space view that any attempt to present it as a flat list is going to take over the screen, including the old way.

What if, in the case where more than one celestial object is being moused over, there was a simple tooltip that said, e.g., "5 objects," preceded by a disclosure triangle. If you care about which five, open the disclosure triangle to get planets and stations. Planets could have disclosure triangles to reveal moons and asteroid belts, and you could have a "show all" command if someone really wants the wall of spam. This way, you'd get a minimum of disruption if you don't care about the 5 things, you just want to see where that ship warped to; but if you did care, you could drill down even in an immense system full of stuff and get what you need.

We already have something like this as cascading context menus in the upper left-hand corner, and the inventory system has a nice disclosure tree, so it seems doable.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Darin Vanar
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#823 - 2014-05-17 17:29:10 UTC
Ugh.....Can you remove the forum tooltips on threads or something to that effect, coming into this thread and getting hit by those, is having a mild traumatic effect on me.

Like whiplash from getting hit in the head with something really hard, repeatedly.

Either the forum tooltips or the random, in game wall of text tooltips have got to go, it's one or the other! I can be very fragile mentally.
Kenneth Endashi
Kor-Azor Slave Holdings
#824 - 2014-05-17 17:33:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenneth Endashi
I found another problem.

I can no longer right-click the icons in my overview. I used to be able to right-click the icon, but now I have to right-click the text to the right of the icon. So if I want to warp to a worm-hole, right-clicking its icon in my overview only displays a tool-tip. Or I can left-click and use the radial menu but it's just not as reliable as right-clicking. It's not my play style.

I find it sort of ironic that tool-tips, which were installed to make the game easier, have removed usability from the icons over which they appear. My fear is that I joined Eve too late, as it enters its YouTube-phase of adding UI obstacles before its true purpose.

The icon appears on-grid for a wormhole. I go to interact with it, set warp to within 70 km, but instead I just get a little tool-tip telling me it is a wormhole.
Jur Tissant
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#825 - 2014-05-17 19:01:49 UTC
It's very difficult to get a lock on something in warp. For example, sometimes when I fly through systems I like to scout out the POCOs for good tax rates, but it's very hard to get your pointer on the POCO icon in warp because of the movement. Idea: once the tooltip "menu" opens when you mouse over something, keep it open until the mouse clearly moves away from that area.
Irya Boone
The Scope
#826 - 2014-05-17 19:24:51 UTC
Need the OFF option quick

Thanks.

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#827 - 2014-05-17 19:45:05 UTC
Jayem See wrote:
Some great stuff here but the tooltips need a rapid iteration.

It made me think immediately of the changes that are coming to the audio features.

slider at 0 = tooltips off
slider at 1-99 = everything in between
slider at 100 = tooltips as instant as possible

Could be as coarse as

Neocom
Brackets
Overview
Modules
Menus/Context Items

Pretty much the only way it makes sense to me.


Nothing so far has suggested any customisation - it's still all the players ask. Let us tweak the game the way we want it.

Aaaaaaand relax.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#828 - 2014-05-17 20:52:31 UTC
Can we get number of wars in the corp neocom tool tip?

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Jimmy Prophet
State War Academy
Caldari State
#829 - 2014-05-17 21:09:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Jimmy Prophet
If CCP is insistant that tooltips are ingame why not have them appear in their own window that is active when a new player joins the game. You could make it just like the notifications and log window, selected items window etc. Then If player wish to see the tooltips they can have it active. If they don't it can be minimized to the Neocom for instant access if it is needed for for something. That way you can hit you Brief of
Inform and teach a new player > It is there in a window of it's own that is on the UI by default
Provide value to existing players> If i need to know i can open the window and look\ scroll have the infomation flash
Be unobtrusive enough to veterans that they can be ignored > left minimized on the NeoCom and ignored

Also this gives the option of being able to move it anywhere on your screen where it won't get in the way of the visuals and immersion of the game. It is always active even if not viewable so You are attempting to give the infomation and we use our own free minds to read it/ use it or not

Another option is hold down a key and mouse over if you want a tooltip. They can be set as automatic tooltips unless a shortcut key is enabled.
For Instance the radial menu was automatic set to the right mouse button unless it was edited( i changed mine to the middle mouse button which i don't use therefor i don't have the radial menu popup this got it out of my way)


Players learn and memorize the symbols on the overview and what they are. It can be taught to a 3 year old in a couple of hours( tested and confirmed) so tips popping up of something already learned is useless.

Tooltips covering up part of the overview = bad i hover my mouse over the overiew that has 2 ships on it i see a ship model on the overview but the tooltip covers the name of the ship model that is above it. Now i have to move the mouse out of the way to view before deciding to fight or run.

How about different icons for the player's ships sizes on the overview like you have for NPC's That would assist new players on the class of ship quicker than a tooltip and can be used at a glace without having to move the mouse cursor.


Also another kind of useless bit of infomation.

I really don't need to know that i have 78% shields and 24% armor remaining flashing up over the HUD i can already see that (albeit not to a exact percentage which really isn't needed) by the glaring red and white bars on the HUD.

Yes it is needed for bragging rights ie i escaped with 2% structure so i can see this feature is required for ego's and smack talkers.
Neutrino Sunset
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#830 - 2014-05-17 22:47:15 UTC
The old bracket text is back, that's good.

I'm still at a complete loss to understand why you felt it was necessary to make so much work for yourselves and bollocks up one of the few parts of the game that was actually working ok, instead of fixing any of the stuff that players have been begging for that's been broken for years.

Why not fix the keyboard shortcuts instead? I struggle to believe I'm actually playing a spaceship simulation game where none of the keyboard shortcuts have worked properly for 10 years. It's ludicrous that I can't select an object in space and then press a shortcut key to perform an action on it, but that's how it currently is.
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#831 - 2014-05-17 23:50:10 UTC
Eurynome Mangeiri wrote:
Darin Vanar wrote:


I wonder if the devs know there is some spilled over code that isn't properly turning off? -- rhetorical question to the devs :)

they are fully aware.

when odyssey was released, they killed explo

many ppl like me then turned off the scanning overlay, since it had no purpose anymore.

that's when we noticed then issue.

so many forum post / bug reports were written.

the dev's answer: it is by design, htfu

when we pointed how ridiculmous thge behaviour was, they just stopped repsonding.

and here we are, a year later,n the issue still there, and NO dev will ever answer on that subject.

this is how CCP intergrate player feedback:

1- release crap feature
2- player complain about said feature, giving many reasons WHY said feature is bad, and leads to improve it
3- CCP answer, saying "thx for the feedback we are working on it"
4- CCP announce a new update, addressing a few point except the major ones
5- they stop answering in the thread
6- two month later said thread is closed, a new one is opened where player continue feedback
7- a year later, still no iteration or answer from CCP on the subject, players are stuck with crap feature since it was released

i play since 2010, and every single time a feature with problems is released, they apply the exact same behaviour....


This.

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
Oraac Ensor
#832 - 2014-05-18 00:32:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Oraac Ensor
Jimmy Prophet wrote:

How about different icons for the player's ships sizes on the overview like you have for NPC's That would assist new players on the class of ship quicker than a tooltip and can be used at a glace without having to move the mouse cursor.

That feature already exists - small, medium and large brackets compared with small, medium and large red crosses.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#833 - 2014-05-18 05:16:18 UTC
The icons in the overview do not interact with ctrl or right click like they use to.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Oraac Ensor
#834 - 2014-05-18 06:50:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Oraac Ensor
Salpun wrote:
The icons in the overview do not interact with ctrl or right click like they use to.

So . . . ? Why would anyone want to click that tiny square when the whole of the text area to the right of it is available?
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#835 - 2014-05-18 06:57:23 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Salpun wrote:
The icons in the overview do not interact with ctrl or right click like they use to.

So . . . ? Why would anyone want to click that tiny square when the whole of the text area to the right of it is available?

They are so red and shiny lol. Some people have that habit. With the overview to the right the easiest target for your mouse movement to go towards are the icons.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Oraac Ensor
#836 - 2014-05-18 07:05:45 UTC
Salpun wrote:
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Salpun wrote:
The icons in the overview do not interact with ctrl or right click like they use to.

So . . . ? Why would anyone want to click that tiny square when the whole of the text area to the right of it is available?

They are so red and shiny lol. Some people have that habit. With the overview to the right the easiest target for your mouse movement to go towards are the icons.

Nope. The easiest target for my mouse is the text area - it's more than 20 times the size of the icon!
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#837 - 2014-05-18 11:01:40 UTC
I don't know if anyone has already mentioned it, But can we get the Character Sheet Tooltip to show the Character Name like it did previously? (managing lots of alts is sometimes disorientating so being able to quickly check which toon you are on is a good thing :) )
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#838 - 2014-05-18 12:20:23 UTC
Just in case this hasn't been mentionned before, on unflatten galaxy map, you cannot double clic to center camera on a star anymore.

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John Lawyer
Doomheim
#839 - 2014-05-18 16:13:24 UTC  |  Edited by: John Lawyer
Oh, hell!

I've already stopped my pvp activity due to recent UI "improvement" and went into trade but when listing the contract pages I have same tooltips appearing in the very front of my screen, concealing its content.

Hey guys from CCP - its not funny anymore - I'm about to quit eve 'cause these tooltips makes me angry - and I want to rest and have fun and pleasure when I logging in.

I remember jump gate animation fcukup but this will not happen second time. Not with me on board.

Be so kind - give us TURN OFF button ;)

P.S.: btw, I have issues with fitting window - not all folders can be opened - one is always closing. It started with tooltips implementation.
Neutrino Sunset
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#840 - 2014-05-18 17:07:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Neutrino Sunset
Original brackets in space are back, which is good. but I'm having an issue configuring their display back to how they originally were. (Thoughout this post opening HTML tags have an extra trailing space to circumvent the forum HTML blocking).

If I go to Overview Settings, Ships tab, and set the following configuration, (where the asterisks represent the checked options).

* "" Pilot Name ""
* "< fontsize=11>< color=0xfff5deb3>< b>" Ship Type "< /b>< /color>< /fontsize>"
"" Alliance Ticker ""
"" Corp Ticker ""
* "" Ship Name ""
"" Additional Text

Then inspace brackets are displayed like this:

[] PilotName ShipType< /b>< /color>< /fontsize> PilotName's Minmatar Shuttle 12km

Where PilotName is plain format, ShipType uses the format specified in the HTML, but with "PilotName's Minmatar Shuttle 12km" also using the format specified for Ship Type and the trailing HTML being output to the bracket text obviously also being incorrect.

The only reason I'm having to reconfigure this manually at all is because the bracket output formatting has been incorrect/corrupted ever since the patch which introduced the new tooltips.

It looks as if the configuration mechanism is straightforward enough with simple HTML pre and post formatting tags, but either I'm misunderstanding how to use it properly, or it's bolloxed, or both.