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How big is EVE?

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Cypherous
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
#41 - 2014-05-16 18:33:16 UTC
Ka'Narlist wrote:
Aziesta wrote:
Ka'Narlist wrote:
Well if you want to talk about game mechanics, no one could answer my question so far if its even possible to reach another point in a system without warping (and thus triggering a grid change).
For example slowboating from one planet to another and waiting a long time.

This is entirely possible. Grid change is different than session change. For example, if you undock your ship and point it in a random direction, eventually the security guns/other people around the station will disappear from your overview. Similarly, if you turn around, eventually they would show up again. This works for anything within a system, it's only moving between systems that requires a session change.

Unfortunatly the explanation you provided doesn't prove the point. It may work that way or just just continue flying through empty space even if you flew in the right direction and have passed the right distance, because maybe loading the other enviornment (for example the planet you want to reach) is only triggered by warping.
As long as no one proves this by trying out only the devs can answer this, but they don't seem to want to Sad


As mentioned grids don't require a session change to pass between, there is actually a PDF out there that explains in detail about grids, its a book called Grid-Fu and is actually quite the interesting read if you can find it, i'm not sure how many of the mechanics have changed though but it should still be mostly correct
Desivo Delta Visseroff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2014-05-16 19:03:34 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
New Eden isn't a galaxy, it's a dense cluster of starts that may or may not be part of a galaxy.

Blink




Ah HAAttentionAttention Now ConfirmedAttentionAttentionAttention

The new player-made star gates will serve to connect the New Eden Cluster to the greater Eve GalaxyShocked The cat is now out of the bag and never going back in.

Thanks FalconPirate

I was hunting for sick loot, but all I could get my hands on were 50 corpses[:|]..............[:=d]
Mario Putzo
#43 - 2014-05-16 19:10:26 UTC
New Eden is an interstellar neighborhood, which is basically just a cluster of stars that are nearby each other. Typically this is just a small segment of a Galaxy, which is part of a Galactic Neighborhood, which is part of a Super Cluster, which is one of many neighboring super clusters, which combined make up the visible universe.

Like this. http://fishofgold.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/neighborhood.jpg
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#44 - 2014-05-16 19:40:11 UTC
Ka'Narlist wrote:
Aziesta wrote:
Ka'Narlist wrote:
Well if you want to talk about game mechanics, no one could answer my question so far if its even possible to reach another point in a system without warping (and thus triggering a grid change).
For example slowboating from one planet to another and waiting a long time.

This is entirely possible. Grid change is different than session change. For example, if you undock your ship and point it in a random direction, eventually the security guns/other people around the station will disappear from your overview. Similarly, if you turn around, eventually they would show up again. This works for anything within a system, it's only moving between systems that requires a session change.

Unfortunatly the explanation you provided doesn't prove the point. It may work that way or just just continue flying through empty space even if you flew in the right direction and have passed the right distance, because maybe loading the other enviornment (for example the planet you want to reach) is only triggered by warping.
As long as no one proves this by trying out only the devs can answer this, but they don't seem to want to Sad



Its kinda a moot point. Why? Because lets just say you did try, this means that if it took 3 months to get from a planet to a moon slow boating, or hell, lets just say it will take 3 days (I an not gonna do the math, this is just an example, sue me) Once a day you will be forced to log out due to DT. When you log back in, you will be forced to warp. So, in theory, even IF the grid will not show unless you warp, on the third day when you arrive, you will have to log back in eventually and thus will be forced to warp.

But as has been said by a lot of people, warping is not a session change. And when you move off and on grids things show up and vanish. Thus not warping, it should be possible, given no downtime, to eventually slow boat from one body to another. you just can't say slow boat from jita to perimeter without using a gate. Perimeter will never 'spawn' for you

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#45 - 2014-05-16 19:48:35 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Let's see…

K-space width: 845,268,785,854,449,280 metres (~89.3 ly)
K-space depth: 215,604,069,482,645,952 metres (~22.8 ly)
K-space height: 957,320,693,030,119,680 metres (~101 ly)

Let's pick something reasonably fast that can stay that way for a loooong time. So, say, a 6km/s interceptor.

Just going from top to bottom — the shortest traverse possible — would take 1,138,680 years.
From north to south — the longest (single-axis) traverse possible — would take 5,055,943 years.

Hope you packed some lunch. P


Oh, and warping across at 24 AU/s (which should be compared to slow-poke photons, which only travel at 0.002 AU/s) still takes 3 days. There's a reason why we have star gates.

More trivia, from The not-so-great-after-all deep safe nerf of 2010:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
The furthest bookmark is 5,900,000,000 AU (95,000 light years) from its sun. This is roughly the same distance as the diameter of the milky way
Hoshi
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#46 - 2014-05-16 21:10:24 UTC
Ka'Narlist wrote:

Unfortunatly the explanation you provided doesn't prove the point. It may work that way or just just continue flying through empty space even if you flew in the right direction and have passed the right distance, because maybe loading the other enviornment (for example the planet you want to reach) is only triggered by warping.
As long as no one proves this by trying out only the devs can answer this, but they don't seem to want to Sad

There are some objects that are close enough to "slowboat" between. The 2 stations around Jita VI M4 is a good example, another would be 2 of the gates in KDF-GY.

Another similar example is that it's possible to slowboat between Deadspace Pockets without using the acceleration gates.

"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
Ka'Narlist
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#47 - 2014-05-16 21:22:37 UTC
Hoshi wrote:
[quote=Ka'Narlist]
another would be 2 of the gates in KDF-GY.

Thanks, will try that out when I find the login button again
Daenika
Chambers of Shaolin
#48 - 2014-05-16 23:49:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Daenika
Farthest system to farthest system (looks to be M-VACR to MVUO-F) is a travel distance on jumps of 113,739 lightyears. That's a reaonably straight line, but assuming a 15% overestimate of distance, that's still a minimum of about 97,000 lightyears across, or about 9 * 10^17 km.

A shuttle moves at around a half a kilometer per second. At that speed, it would take the shuttle around 60 billion years to cross that distance.

The fastest ship I've ever seen in EVE ran at 26 kilometers per second. At that velocity, it would take that ship a bit over 1 billion years to cross that distance.

A Leopard warps at 20 AU (1 AU = ~150 million kilometers) per second. Even at that speed, it would still take the Leopard just under 10 years to cross the distance (and that's assuming the Leopard could warp the whole distance in one go, rather than stopping for a capacitor recharge every ~100-200 AU like it has to now).

Moral of the story: EVE is BIG

Incidentally, 100,000 lightyears is roughly the prevailing estimate for diameter of the stellar disk of the Milky Way galaxy we inhabit, so EVE's galaxy is actually reasonably realistically sized. That said, if we want realism, there's should be a super-massive black hole with nothing around it right about between Derelik and Sing Laison.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#49 - 2014-05-17 00:24:13 UTC
The galaxy in the map is not a complete galaxy. It is only a selection of binary systems in a much larger galaxy. The actual galaxy has billions of stars.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2014-05-17 05:38:38 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
New Eden isn't a galaxy, it's a dense cluster of starts that may or may not be part of a galaxy.

Blink

There should be a super massive black hole in the middle of empire space if it were a galaxy.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Kenneth Endashi
Kor-Azor Slave Holdings
#51 - 2014-05-17 06:33:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenneth Endashi
Rough calculations based on estimates of our own galaxy:

Milky Way contains roughly 300 billion stars. If New Eden contains 7,500 stars, that means we could fit 40 million New Edens inside the Milky Way galaxy.

New Eden would constitute 0.0000024999999999999998 percent of the Milky Way.

This is where my math breaks down. The Milky Way is between 100,000 and 120,000 light years across. Assuming our stars are just as evenly distributed, my math puts New Eden at .003 light years across. I know that's gotta be wrong, though, since the closest star to Earth in the Milky Way galaxy is 1 light year away. Can somebody help me?

Aside: .003 almost seems like a binary star system, which brings me to another question: Why are there no binary star systems in Eve? Binary stars, in nature, are more common than sun-like stars (like our own). So are gas giants, and I appreciate the developers getting that ratio correct.

New Eden by videogame standards is impressively massive, but relatively small (even without my bad math) compared to the probable density of our own galactic arm.
Shindad Kal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2014-05-17 16:25:12 UTC
Daenika wrote:
Farthest system to farthest system (looks to be M-VACR to MVUO-F) is a travel distance on jumps of 113,739 lightyears. That's a reaonably straight line, but assuming a 15% overestimate of distance, that's still a minimum of about 97,000 lightyears across, or about 9 * 10^17 km.

A shuttle moves at around a half a kilometer per second. At that speed, it would take the shuttle around 60 billion years to cross that distance.

The fastest ship I've ever seen in EVE ran at 26 kilometers per second. At that velocity, it would take that ship a bit over 1 billion years to cross that distance.

A Leopard warps at 20 AU (1 AU = ~150 million kilometers) per second. Even at that speed, it would still take the Leopard just under 10 years to cross the distance (and that's assuming the Leopard could warp the whole distance in one go, rather than stopping for a capacitor recharge every ~100-200 AU like it has to now).

Moral of the story: EVE is BIG

Incidentally, 100,000 lightyears is roughly the prevailing estimate for diameter of the stellar disk of the Milky Way galaxy we inhabit, so EVE's galaxy is actually reasonably realistically sized. That said, if we want realism, there's should be a super-massive black hole with nothing around it right about between Derelik and Sing Laison.



Ok so far this is the best explanation....so if I am getting this right...it is quite possible that unless I make a concerted effort...I will probably never see all of the eve universe...in my lifetime?
Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#53 - 2014-05-17 17:13:16 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
New Eden isn't a galaxy, it's a dense cluster of starts that may or may not be part of a galaxy.

Blink

There should be a super massive black hole in the middle of empire space if it were a galaxy.

Jita?

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Little Chubby
Atrocity.
#54 - 2014-05-18 03:12:50 UTC
Deacon Abox wrote:
Barbara Nichole wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
New Eden isn't a galaxy, it's a dense cluster of starts that may or may not be part of a galaxy.

Blink

There should be a super massive black hole in the middle of empire space if it were a galaxy.

Jita?


He didn't say supermassive **** hole.
Sul Glass
Fat Dragon Mining Co.
Darwinism.
#55 - 2014-05-18 13:56:32 UTC
Small enough to fly all the way round in about 3 1/2 hours.

I know because I did. All the way around the outside (apart from dead ends) in a cloaky, bubble buster, Tengu.

As far as I know, first and only.

Bit boring TBH, but some null-bears were a bit surprised.

Sul
Tikitina
Doomheim
#56 - 2014-05-18 14:02:29 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
New Eden isn't a galaxy, it's a dense cluster of starts that may or may not be part of a galaxy.

Blink




Yeah, you guys thought you could keep the Eve Cluster hidden, but we found it.
Doreen Kaundur
#57 - 2014-05-18 14:15:21 UTC
How big is EVE?

She's real big. Just ask her gynocologist.

[center]1. Minor navigation color change. 2. Show bookmarks in the overview.[/center]
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
#58 - 2014-05-18 14:42:04 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Let's see…

K-space width: 845,268,785,854,449,280 metres (~89.3 ly)
K-space depth: 215,604,069,482,645,952 metres (~22.8 ly)
K-space height: 957,320,693,030,119,680 metres (~101 ly)

Let's pick something reasonably fast that can stay that way for a loooong time. So, say, a 6km/s interceptor.

Just going from top to bottom — the shortest traverse possible — would take 1,138,680 years.
From north to south — the longest (single-axis) traverse possible — would take 5,055,943 years.

Hope you packed some lunch. P


Oh, and warping across at 24 AU/s (which should be compared to slow-poke photons, which only travel at 0.002 AU/s) still takes 3 days. There's a reason why we have star gates.


On top of the time requirement then, you'd have to drop nearly $150,000,000 on sub costs.

KB

Dum Spiro Spero
Iron Wraith
The Devils Own
#59 - 2014-05-19 16:03:56 UTC
Shindad Kal wrote:
Ok so far this is the best explanation....so if I am getting this right...it is quite possible that unless I make a concerted effort...I will probably never see all of the eve universe...in my lifetime?

nono, we have stargates that trivialise such distances, your original question was asking about traveling from A to B without stargates, hence all the maths :)

as mentioned above you can do a lap of eve in a fast ship in a few hours. personally i made my lap of eve before warp to zero was an option and it took me just over 4 hours in a 5km/s interceptor (15KM sprint to each gate getting shot at on the way).

so if you got a sneaky cloaky ship you could visit every single system over time, though you might want a character just for that as they will be stuck out on that road trip for a good long while.

you might want to do some regular sightseeing instead. go find the eve gate and the obelisk, also visit some of the empire homes and take a trip through null sec in a ship and clone you don't mind losing
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#60 - 2014-05-19 16:05:29 UTC
By my measurements 1920x1200 pixels. Never changes....

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
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