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Quick question about Level 4 security, and when you should run them,

Author
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#41 - 2014-04-25 13:40:07 UTC
Honestly the meta on lvl 4s has changed a lot recently due to CCP's various upgrades etc. . . In particular the MJD has trivialized many missions. Go to eve survival and research the missions. Frequently, you will find these days that you simply dont need a whole lot of anything to complete the missions. Of course there are some that require decent tank and dps, but for someone just starting out in lvl 4s - just decline those missions until your training brings you to the point where you feel comfortable doing them.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.

Seraphi Nephalis
Seraphi Nephalis Corporation
#42 - 2014-05-18 09:57:47 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Honestly the meta on lvl 4s has changed a lot recently due to CCP's various upgrades etc. . . In particular the MJD has trivialized many missions. Go to eve survival and research the missions. Frequently, you will find these days that you simply dont need a whole lot of anything to complete the missions. Of course there are some that require decent tank and dps, but for someone just starting out in lvl 4s - just decline those missions until your training brings you to the point where you feel comfortable doing them.


Yeah, I see that now that I've been running level 4s. I'm finding that my main problem is not tank, but DPS. Most missions so far have been pretty straightforward. MJD to a safe distance, unleash the sentry bots, start shooting. But occasionally these elite Bship rats take quite awhile to tear down. I haven't run into anything yet that was overwhelming, as long as I stayed on the ball and used the MJD strategically. But some of these missions are taking a looooong time.

Mostly this seems to be because my skills are still catching up. I've been spending so much time on supporting skills and tank. Now that I've been at it for a little bit, it seems like I woulda been better off starting with damage.

Oh well, live and learn.

"What a sad world we live in, where politeness is mistaken for weakness."  - Usagi Yojimbo

Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2014-05-18 10:52:51 UTC
Jockari Morden wrote:
Before this summer, don't try L4 without T2 sentries because it takes forever to complete the mission, not mentionning the travel time in a BS.

I did a dozen L4 with T1 sentries (on this char when it was at ~8M sp) while finishing training for T2 and basically lost my time compared to storming L3 in my Ishtar (T1 sentries are fine for L3)

Now with T2 sentries and better drone skills doing L4 starts to be much more rewarding.


a lot of people talking about needing T2 sentry. Faction sentry are awesome (don't lose them though.)
i did all the 4's in a drake was easy but slow.
I have a few chars and many of them need rep for various reasons. I run missions in various ships for variety. It is kinda fun having a ship that won't run a mission and then refitting until it will. Yesterday my market alt had to refit from shield to armour and arty to autocannons and add a afterburner to survive and kill a mission in a hurricane. (had to inject and train repair systems to manage this lol.
It might not be a good use of my time from an isk/hr point of view but it does help my pvp to know about how different ships fit and fly.
Fit an extra repper on your prophecy and a cap booster and give them a whirl.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#44 - 2014-05-18 10:53:29 UTC
Seraphi Nephalis wrote:
Mostly this seems to be because my skills are still catching up. I've been spending so much time on supporting skills and tank. Now that I've been at it for a little bit, it seems like I woulda been better off starting with damage.


Yup, once you can get into a Dominix with MJD, the only skills you need to worry about are the ones that add drone damage, the ones that let you use the Drone Damage Amplifier lowslow modules, the Omnidirectional Tracking Link mid slot, and the Drone Link Augmentor highslot module.
Seraphi Nephalis
Seraphi Nephalis Corporation
#45 - 2014-05-18 17:54:25 UTC
Yeah, if I had to do it again, I would definitely have gone straight for Sentry IIs, and their supporting modules first. Hull upgrades 5 in order to get T2 tank modules was....I won't say a waste of time, but definitely something that could have been put off until later. I fell like I could have easily gotten away with meta 4 tank mods due to the MJD.

"What a sad world we live in, where politeness is mistaken for weakness."  - Usagi Yojimbo

SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#46 - 2014-05-18 18:36:41 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Harbonah wrote:


Oh and you better have all your compensation skills maxed for either shields or armor.



Uh, what? Shield comp skills are just this side of worthless, shield amps are pretty niche and not that commonly used, except for the EM one. Armor are alright, but for missions it's generally easy enough to just use active hardeners.

You could trivially get by without compensations trained at all.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Flharfh Lhar
Sasquatch Control Bureau
#47 - 2014-05-19 02:35:48 UTC
You absolutely don't need T2 weapons, that's ridiculous. Meta 4 are fine. I do recommend a T2 tank, not that you absolutely *need* it, but because it will provide a larger margin of error for a newer player. The rewards for level 4s are so much greater than level 3s that it's worth taking a little risk. Insure your ship and be careful, make sure you read the eve-survival page for each mission before you do it so you know which type of hardener to fit and what the triggers are.
Seraphi Nephalis
Seraphi Nephalis Corporation
#48 - 2014-05-19 06:48:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Seraphi Nephalis
Flharfh Lhar wrote:
You absolutely don't need T2 weapons, that's ridiculous. Meta 4 are fine. I do recommend a T2 tank,....


No...see, that's what people kept telling me, but I'm really not seeing the need for it. It seems like being aware and reading the EVE survival guide is plenty fine with a MJD, unless there's some crazy mission out there that insta-pops you the moment you warp in? And if there is, then I would just decline the mission and go on to the next.

Don't get me wrong! Having good tank is never bad. But it just appears to me that the opposite is a much better approach. Get the DPS so the missions go faster, then let the tank catch up as you go. Maybe I'm slightly ahead of the learning curve for new pilots to level 4 or something, I don't know.

"What a sad world we live in, where politeness is mistaken for weakness."  - Usagi Yojimbo

Dilligafmofo
3WAYFOUNDATIONS
New Miner's Union
#49 - 2014-05-19 08:39:35 UTC
I started soloing lvl 4 missions with 2m skill points back in the days before decent mission reports were avaiable.

Kill the frigs first and ever be afraid to warp out if you need to.

Lvl 4's can be done using T1 weapons. Ensure your tank is up to the job. Once you become more familiar with the missions you ca strt to reduce yor tank and up the damage application.

Good luck
Mortlake
Republic Military School
#50 - 2014-05-19 09:19:14 UTC
Harbonah wrote:


Oh and you better have all your compensation skills maxed for either shields or armor.



Not true. Comps at 4 is perfectly acceptable initially, as are Meta 4 guns. As the poster above has stated, once you settle in and feel that your tank is coping, switch to damage application as your primary focus for skilling as by this time you'll be thinking more about the speed you can complete missions in to maximise your isk/hr rather than surviving.

Sometimes you hit the bar and sometimes the bar hits you...

Seraphi Nephalis
Seraphi Nephalis Corporation
#51 - 2014-05-25 16:16:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Seraphi Nephalis
Just wanted to make a new post here because I've been getting a lot of in-game emails from people. Everyone keeps telling me to slow down and to not risk running a BS until my skills build up more.

I'm currently sitting on just over 3m SP(a lot of which has nothing to do with combat). I'm running level 4 missions more or less constantly. I've cleared even the 'difficult' level 4 missions such as Dread Pirate Scarlet with very little difficulty. The combination of extra long-range sentry drones and rails with a MJD almost feels like cheating to me. Yes, in some cases I've had to warp out then back in again as I was learning how much punishment a BS can take, but never was I in a position where I felt in danger of losing my ship.

I honestly believe that everyone who told me to wait until my skills reached T2 modules is being overly cautious. Maybe that's a good caution for most people. And T2 almost certainly would speed mission clearing times up. But by paying attention and reading the EVE survival guides and intelligently using the MJD, I could have been doing level 4 missions with all meta 4 equipment and a set of faction sentry drones.

I'm not saying that they're wrong, but between the extreme range of sentry drones and the ability to use a MJD to stay at that range indefinitely, and the foreknowledge granted by EVE survival, the danger of even the most difficult level 4 missions is almost nullified.

If I had to do it again, I'd have made sure my supporting skills are all at level 3-4, practiced a bit in level 3s to get used to how a BS flies, then did a few level 4s VERY slowly to grow accustomed to what I could handle. Read EVE survival, make liberal use of the MJD, kill frigates first, and let my skills catch up as I continued clearing more lvl 4s. It didn't take me that long to recoup the cost of the BS, so even if it pops at this point, I can jump right back in.

So to me, the 'risk' is well worth the added time spent doing level 4s instead of mucking around in level 3s. I wish I'd known better, coulda saved me some time. Oh well.

"What a sad world we live in, where politeness is mistaken for weakness."  - Usagi Yojimbo

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#52 - 2014-05-26 00:29:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabriz Adoudel
The reason we gave you that advice is that most of us started before the Microjump Drive, which really does make L4s a lot safer.

My advice to a newbie would still be the following training order (assuming you want a Dominix):

- Fitting skills to 5 (Advanced Weapon Upgrades to 3)
- Capacitor skills to 4
- Tech 2 armor tank
- Faction sentry drones, one short range (Federation Navy Garde) one long range (Republic Fleet Bouncer), Sentry Drone Interfacing 3
- Drone Interfacing 3 (would have been 4 but the skill is changing in Kronos and net performance at DI 3 is equal to present DI 4)
- Large Hybrid Turrets 3 and prereqs
- Gallente Battleship 3
- MJD skill to 1

- start l4s at this point

- Gall BS 4
- The x1 capacitor skill to 5
- Drone Interfacing 4
- MJD skill to 3
- Tech 2 light/med drones
- Tech 2 guns, both large railgun and blaster specialisations to 3
- Tech 2 sentries
- Gall BS 5
- Tech 2 heavy drones
- The x3 capacitor skill to 5
- Both large gun specializations to 4

That starting point allows more mistakes than the approach I take when I run missions (which I do more than most pirate types, as I keep very good standings with factions and NPC corps whose stations I trade in). Because I'm pretty much always legal to attack in highsec (due to relatively affordable public killrights from past clients of my ganking services), I personally run in an Ishtar with a two-module/three rig tank and a microwarpdrive, with every other slot dedicated to damage, damage application, and PVP utility.

But it also allows room to grow.

As you get more skilled, consider removing some survivability modules for more speed and more PVP utility. Once you can absorb the loss of a Dominix, try running missions in a quiet system while suspect flagged (with two or more heavy neuts and a warp disruptor) and try to get kills that way.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

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