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D-Scan in WH Space

Author
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#21 - 2011-10-26 20:00:51 UTC
Mew wrote:
The scan probe update was very good. it works very well as a long range scanner. Its like something you see in tv shows and movies. its also works well as an in game tool. The D-scan could use a similar update, making it more in depth and satisfying to use. Its not that necessary but theres defiantly room for improvement on the current d-scan gameplay mechanic. It would also be a step in the right direction for ccp. After all the drama about Wis and the nex store it would good move to improve the core gameplay of eve.



No no no bad bad bad!

DScan needs to be a "click" and you get the info RIGHT NOW! Any types of delays, games, dances, recitation of poetry... it can and will kill people.

Dscan needs to remain simple and above all else immediate.

>click< OH CRAP! "Warp drive activated"

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Mew
Doomheim
#22 - 2011-10-26 20:19:29 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Mew wrote:
The scan probe update was very good. it works very well as a long range scanner. Its like something you see in tv shows and movies. its also works well as an in game tool. The D-scan could use a similar update, making it more in depth and satisfying to use. Its not that necessary but theres defiantly room for improvement on the current d-scan gameplay mechanic. It would also be a step in the right direction for ccp. After all the drama about Wis and the nex store it would good move to improve the core gameplay of eve.



No no no bad bad bad!

DScan needs to be a "click" and you get the info RIGHT NOW! Any types of delays, games, dances, recitation of poetry... it can and will kill people.

Dscan needs to remain simple and above all else immediate.

>click< OH CRAP! "Warp drive activated"


i didnt say anything about how it should be updated, i just said it should be updated. your jumping to conclusions dude. but then again looking at my post i probably was not that clear in the first place.

Any update to the d-scan would work both ways. you need the d-scan for finding the target and detecting incoming targets. In your post you mentioned it as a defensive tool imo is overpowered in that respect. its easier to see an incoming ship or spot scan probes than track someone down. i mean, nine times out of ten you can see a cov ops on the d-scan before it gets its cloak back on after leaving a wormhole.
Dread Barista
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#23 - 2011-10-28 16:11:33 UTC
If whoever is hunting you actually belongs in a wh, your d-scan probably won't matter a whole lot anyway. I run sites in a loki with the probing subsystem in, means combat scanners can cover the entire system, just ignore all signatures of your buddies etc, click the scan button every time the last one finishes when something new appears run away and investigate.

As far as the of it being a repetitive task, computers are made for repetitive tasks, let the computer do it.... Well what's mining? or missioning, or ratting, or grinding sleeper sites? If your d-scan told you how much damage it did to the interstellar medium each time you clicked would that make it fun?
Sinooko
Tharumec
Gespenster Kompanie
#24 - 2011-12-03 07:47:14 UTC
Dread Barista wrote:
If whoever is hunting you actually belongs in a wh, your d-scan probably won't matter a whole lot anyway. I run sites in a loki with the probing subsystem in, means combat scanners can cover the entire system, just ignore all signatures of your buddies etc, click the scan button every time the last one finishes when something new appears run away and investigate.

As far as the of it being a repetitive task, computers are made for repetitive tasks, let the computer do it.... Well what's mining? or missioning, or ratting, or grinding sleeper sites? If your d-scan told you how much damage it did to the interstellar medium each time you clicked would that make it fun?


Even my artillery cycles...
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2011-12-03 07:58:20 UTC
i agree the d-scan wh lifestyle is beyond idiotic, but it should be replaced as part of a greater overhaul of intel gathering in both w and 0.0 k-space
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#26 - 2011-12-03 15:25:20 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
i agree the d-scan wh lifestyle is beyond idiotic, but it should be replaced as part of a greater overhaul of intel gathering in both w and 0.0 k-space


It works quite fine for people that know what the hell they're doing.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

CobaltSixty
Fawkes' Loyal Professionals
#27 - 2011-12-03 15:46:23 UTC  |  Edited by: CobaltSixty
The D-Scan could use an update (not just for us WHers) and here's how to do it.

Automatic mode = When set via checkbox, D-Scan cycles every 10 seconds on its own after the first manual scan. Benefit is, if you leave your scanner window open, you'll be able to see new ships pop up on scan if the timing's right. Downside is, if they're a cloaker and it happened to catch them, the readout may auto-refresh and disappear by the time you cancel the auto-mode. You have to un-check automatic mode and then scan to get an update sooner than 10 seconds from last scan. Pressing scan after the first time on auto mode will give you a quick error and tell you how long until the next automatic scan is begun. Also, put a 10 second delay on switching modes so you can't go Manual-Auto-Manual in less than 10 seconds.

Manual mode = Performs identical to current single-mode D-Scan. Useful for 0.0 when scouts want to take a snapshot of an enemy fleet when they're in range and as an override for "I'd really like to check now".

Both require you to be at your computer and paying attention. No extra visual/audio queues to alert you to a ship presence, just an option for an auto-refreshing D-scan with a drawback which is the cycle time.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#28 - 2011-12-03 20:13:42 UTC
CobaltSixty wrote:
The D-Scan could use an update (not just for us WHers) and here's how to do it.

Automatic mode = When set via checkbox, D-Scan cycles every 10 seconds on its own after the first manual scan. Benefit is, if you leave your scanner window open, you'll be able to see new ships pop up on scan if the timing's right. Downside is, if they're a cloaker and it happened to catch them, the readout may auto-refresh and disappear by the time you cancel the auto-mode. You have to un-check automatic mode and then scan to get an update sooner than 10 seconds from last scan. Pressing scan after the first time on auto mode will give you a quick error and tell you how long until the next automatic scan is begun. Also, put a 10 second delay on switching modes so you can't go Manual-Auto-Manual in less than 10 seconds.

Manual mode = Performs identical to current single-mode D-Scan. Useful for 0.0 when scouts want to take a snapshot of an enemy fleet when they're in range and as an override for "I'd really like to check now".

Both require you to be at your computer and paying attention. No extra visual/audio queues to alert you to a ship presence, just an option for an auto-refreshing D-scan with a drawback which is the cycle time.


So basically you want to add a mode to DScan that is guaranteed to kill people.

Considering it'll only kill those stupid enough to use it... I'm having a hard time objecting. So long as currently functionality remains, that is.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2011-12-03 20:47:31 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
i agree the d-scan wh lifestyle is beyond idiotic, but it should be replaced as part of a greater overhaul of intel gathering in both w and 0.0 k-space


It works quite fine for people that know what the hell they're doing.

Yes yes I'm sure you have great expertise at clicking a button. Be proud.
But for the rest of us, who have more trouble grasping the clearly high level manuever of finding the [SCAN] square, moving the mouse over it, then activating the left-mouse trigger, perhaps an intel gatering feature based on preparation, or intelligent gameplay (well, more intelligent gameplay). Just a thought.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#30 - 2011-12-03 21:37:23 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
i agree the d-scan wh lifestyle is beyond idiotic, but it should be replaced as part of a greater overhaul of intel gathering in both w and 0.0 k-space


It works quite fine for people that know what the hell they're doing.

Yes yes I'm sure you have great expertise at clicking a button. Be proud.
But for the rest of us, who have more trouble grasping the clearly high level manuever of finding the [SCAN] square, moving the mouse over it, then activating the left-mouse trigger, perhaps an intel gatering feature based on preparation, or intelligent gameplay (well, more intelligent gameplay). Just a thought.


The problem isn't DScan... it's that you still have to think about using it.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Major Kim
Fawkes' Loyal Professionals
#31 - 2011-12-04 03:59:46 UTC
Consider the fact that we're supposed to be pilots; that can't be killed, can use faster than light travel, use giant space lazers, and kill inteligent drones...
Yet, we can't set D-Scan to auto repeat. Why is this so hard to ask for?

Honestly now, what's so hard about that...
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#32 - 2011-12-04 11:01:32 UTC
If you want to be able to carebear in perfect safety, detecting instantly every unknown that comes into system, then there's already a region of space specifically designed for you. It's called nullsec.
Daedalus Arcova
The Scope
#33 - 2011-12-04 13:29:26 UTC
I think that if you could auto-cycle d-scan, it needs something to balance it. How about linking cycle time to scan range? So the longer the scan range, the longer the cycle time?
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#34 - 2011-12-04 15:16:26 UTC
Daedalus Arcova wrote:
I think that if you could auto-cycle d-scan, it needs something to balance it. How about linking cycle time to scan range? So the longer the scan range, the longer the cycle time?


Simply how about "no" to automating it. Let the lazy die.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Major Kim
Fawkes' Loyal Professionals
#35 - 2011-12-04 22:08:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Kim
Ingvar Angst wrote:

Simply how about "no" to automating it. Let the lazy die.



Perhaps that's not what we're getting on about here. I can fly at millions of kilometers per seccond but can't set a function "ctrl+s" (these can be set for things, recall drones align to gates, all meant to reduce the amount of time things take), to the scan feature.

I would like to be able to run the scan without having to click the button every 2-5sec's as I have been doing in 0.0 (yes that null sec you love so- much) and Wormhole space, (where this practice is most common).

I don't think it's too much to ask for a 10sec auto repeat. Especially if there is a drawback to using this feature, therefore making it optional. An option that we can use to multi-task more efficiently.

To explain what I think of as a drawback, if you set auto repeat you have to unset auto repeat and wait untill the cycle ends to use the manual scan. Therefore the drawback is 10s delay.

Some ships will warp at 18au/s
Commonly scouts warp at 9/13.5au/s

So one of the slower ships will both enter and leave your scan range in 2 seconds if you don't scan for that ship at the right time, OR in this case the cycle has just ran, and will not run untill this ship is out of your sensor range. There would be a way of manipulating this but you would need say 10 active accounts, and if they're not all on one player, they must then have voice com's to efficiently relay this information.

To recap: I propose two options.
1) allowing the scan button to be controlled by keystrokes.
2) add an automatic rescan feature to the directional scan window (it's not out of this world...or is it)


Justify your reasoning. (anyone can make statements without anything to support it, [think of all the your ma'ma jokes])
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#36 - 2011-12-07 09:44:23 UTC
We're nor asking for the d-scan to inform us there is a new object or highlight it or anything like that. All we want is that scan button to click itself. It should remain up to us to actually look at the d-scan window and be vigilant for new contacts. If you were away from your computer or didn't. realize a new contact showed up, then it sucks to be you.

Also d-scan is by no means a guarantee of safety. As others have pointed out, Some systems are larger than d-scan range and 5 seconds is enough to pop through a wormhole and cloak. You still don't. always know someone is coming.


I should also mention that I do not agree with making d-scan contacts show up in the overview, however. I also don't need any more info on the d-scan. If someone is clever enough to pick up on a corp tagging their ships and copy it to fly under a false tag, props to them.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#37 - 2011-12-07 13:02:46 UTC
Xindi Kraid wrote:
We're nor asking for the d-scan to inform us there is a new object or highlight it or anything like that. All we want is that scan button to click itself. It should remain up to us to actually look at the d-scan window and be vigilant for new contacts. If you were away from your computer or didn't. realize a new contact showed up, then it sucks to be you.

Also d-scan is by no means a guarantee of safety. As others have pointed out, Some systems are larger than d-scan range and 5 seconds is enough to pop through a wormhole and cloak. You still don't. always know someone is coming.


I should also mention that I do not agree with making d-scan contacts show up in the overview, however. I also don't need any more info on the d-scan. If someone is clever enough to pick up on a corp tagging their ships and copy it to fly under a false tag, props to them.


You want to lag out the servers for one thing. Auto-click on dscan would send thousands upon thousands more calls to the servers then now. That would not end well.

Seriously, it's not to hard to click and see what's there. A ten second auto-click would suck, it's too slow. A faster auto-click would suck... I may not want to click right away if I see something, and I want that information to stay intact until I do. You really introduce more potential problems than it would be worth.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

GeneralKool
State War Academy
Caldari State
#38 - 2011-12-07 13:58:56 UTC
Wrath22 wrote:
Another thing is to color code dscan so friendlies pop up blue anyone else red sometime when I'm mining I start warping to pos then realizing its the other corps ship makes for feeling dumb very often...


Botters everywhere would celebrate if they had a way to early detect enemies so their ship can warp to safety.

No this idea is just terribad, leave D-Scan as it is. This idea just makes things unnecessarily complicated, and helps botters more than anyone else.
The Renner
Canadian Operations
#39 - 2011-12-08 04:10:53 UTC
Yes, auto Dscan please, or at least let us bind it to a key, clicking it over and over can gtfo.
Sinooko
Tharumec
Gespenster Kompanie
#40 - 2011-12-09 05:40:56 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Xindi Kraid wrote:
We're nor asking for the d-scan to inform us there is a new object or highlight it or anything like that. All we want is that scan button to click itself. It should remain up to us to actually look at the d-scan window and be vigilant for new contacts. If you were away from your computer or didn't. realize a new contact showed up, then it sucks to be you.

Also d-scan is by no means a guarantee of safety. As others have pointed out, Some systems are larger than d-scan range and 5 seconds is enough to pop through a wormhole and cloak. You still don't. always know someone is coming.


I should also mention that I do not agree with making d-scan contacts show up in the overview, however. I also don't need any more info on the d-scan. If someone is clever enough to pick up on a corp tagging their ships and copy it to fly under a false tag, props to them.


You want to lag out the servers for one thing. Auto-click on dscan would send thousands upon thousands more calls to the servers then now. That would not end well.

Seriously, it's not to hard to click and see what's there. A ten second auto-click would suck, it's too slow. A faster auto-click would suck... I may not want to click right away if I see something, and I want that information to stay intact until I do. You really introduce more potential problems than it would be worth.


I'm already sending thousands of scan queries an hour and so are most of the people in my corp.
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