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[Kronos] Freighters and Jump Freighters Rebalance [Updated]

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Kelsi Monroe
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#481 - 2014-05-18 02:24:50 UTC
I knew this was happening as I started this character today to use her as a freighter alt.

Jesus this is dumb and anyone thinking this was going to be well received by players should be ashamed. like if spending 1.4b in the most boring ship in game wasn´t enough now I have to pay 1b more to make it usefull.

Thanks CCP, good job.

You still rememer that this is a game and all the aspects of it should be fun, or at least not boring as hell, don´t you?
Simulacrum Clone
Imperial Task Force
#482 - 2014-05-18 02:26:22 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone, here's the skinny on the rebalance to Freighters and Jump Freighters. As we announced at the Fanfest keynote, a big part of this rebalance is the ability to use rigs.

To compensate for the ability to use rigs, the base capacity of all Freighters and Jump Freighters is going down, by between 27 and 30%.

[...]

Base HP is dropping on all of these ships, but by a much smaller percentage than cargo. They are gaining armor and shield, and losing some hull. This is especially noticeable on the JFs, which are now getting racial T2 resists to armor and shield at the same level as Marauders. The extra resists mean that Jump Freighters end up with about the same EHP as before.

[...]

Let us know what you think!

I think you are either morons or just hate certain playstyles in EVE; maybe both. It will now cost more for freighter pilots to have what they had before (same freighter cost + rigs) but gankers will be happier, because killing freighter pilots won't cost any extra and might cost less.

If you had any sincere compassion for freighter pilots, and a higher intelligence for customer satisfaction, you would have left the stats alone, but included 3 rigs for standard freighters, two for jump freighters and included one high, medium and low slot.

Every aspect of this game I've once enjoyed, you've managed to nerf. For quite some time you've made this game not worth paying real money for. I've been hanging on with PLEX. This imbecile nerf was unnecessary. You have lost me as a customer. The last subscription on my three accounts ends on May 30.

If your goal is simply to lose subscribers who don't PvP and enjoy large NullSec alliances, then congratulations; that is what you're accomplishing.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#483 - 2014-05-18 02:33:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Simulacrum Clone wrote:
If you had any sincere compassion for freighter pilots, and a higher intelligence for customer satisfaction, you would have left the stats alone, but included 3 rigs for standard freighters, two for jump freighters and included one high, medium and low slot.

So now “compassion“ and “intelligence” has been synonymous with “throwing balance out the window” and “making changes without any concern for the repercussions”. Interesting…

Wilfully breaking the game doesn't seem particularly compassionate or intelligent.

Of course, the real problem here is that the intelligent thing to do would have been to ignore all the requests for fitting options on freighters, but unfortunately the devs are if anything too compassionate and just wanted to give these players what they had been begging for for so long.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#484 - 2014-05-18 02:39:26 UTC
Normally I am all about how Eve is a harsh, dark universe where death and mayhem lurk around every corner, but some things in life just suck. Logistics is one of those things. If I had a forty right now, I'd pour some out for all the freighter and jump freighter pilots who got kicked in the crotch today.

This whole thing reminds me of the poor crippled kid joke. He's walking along with one arm all crippled and crooked and the other nice and strong and straight. He sees a church, goes inside and prays devoutly, "Dear Lord, please make both my arms the same." Our omniscient Creator hears his plea and promptly grants his wish. The kid now has two crippled and crooked arms.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Emizeko Chai
Freight Club
#485 - 2014-05-18 02:40:51 UTC
Buzz Dura wrote:
Buzz Dura wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/b4obsew.png


for those who missed some figures...


This chart lists the Charon and Obelisk twice, and doesn't list the Fenrir or the Providence at all.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#486 - 2014-05-18 02:46:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
I was looking forward to the ADDED CHOICE these changes would bring, but instead they REMOVE CHOICECry

Pre-Kronos Charon: 785,000
Post-Kronos Charon: 550,000

Post-Kronos Rigs:
Rig 1: No choice → Capital Cargohold Optimization II (20% for 660,000), -150 Calibration
Rig 2: No choice → Capital Cargohold Optimization II (20% for 792,000), -150 Calibration
Rig 3: Limited Choice → 100 Calibration
Cost: 1.45 billion ISK at current market prices [likely higher post-Kronos], more than the Charon itself!,

Can't fit a structure rig in the optional slot, as it will reduce cargohold /facepalm I told you that was a bad idea for a drawback.

The only logical possibility is a Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I or II.
Sturmwolke
#487 - 2014-05-18 02:49:21 UTC
About 37.5% extra mass on the Obelisk? Not enough.
Double or triple it please Twisted
Neoxan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#488 - 2014-05-18 02:51:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Neoxan
You Fozzie clearly have no clue about rebalancing freighters, In any case they need to stay as they are now and give them the rigs, you can perfectly gank them with 15-20 catalyst, they are killing freighters with 300m in the cargo nowadays, because the useless soundwave make the security status useless with the tags, you can gank everythin so easily, cause ive been in both sides, ganking and moving freighters and i can tell you that if freighters needed something is a low slot, not useless rigs who make your ship role static and if you want to achieve something, cargo, tank or speed, at best you can get what you had before, you fozzie are bad, really bad please stick to pvp ships and let the people who knows industry as ytterbium do it.
Marcus Gord
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#489 - 2014-05-18 03:01:42 UTC
so the post Kronos Charon will have less cargo at freighter 5 than the Fenrir gets right now, with freighter 0.

this smells rotten.

In a few moments you will have an experience that will seem completely real. It will be the result of your subconscious fears transformed to your conscious awareness.

http://i.imgur.com/LM2NKUf.png
Demonica Mortis
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#490 - 2014-05-18 03:08:37 UTC
Gamberone wrote:
This change is stupid. You don't need to change anything on the JF to allow cargo rigs. Increasing the size of capitals and station freight containers makes sense.

CCP Fozzie are you saying here that JF's were OP? Why do they need this Nerf, please explain.



I agree; they shouldn't nerf the cargo capacity of the JF.

It's almost disingenuous; the very hull and structure of the ship itself IS the cargo bay.

I hope between now and the Summer that they re-allocate the characteristics of the JF to allow for player to up-armor the thing with low slots, or mid-slots for shields. Anything, but don't nerf the sine qua non of the class of ship, which is the ability to HAUL things. Please.
Demonica Mortis
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#491 - 2014-05-18 03:09:47 UTC
Demonica Mortis wrote:
Gamberone wrote:
This change is stupid. You don't need to change anything on the JF to allow cargo rigs. Increasing the size of capitals and station freight containers makes sense.

CCP Fozzie are you saying here that JF's were OP? Why do they need this Nerf, please explain.



I agree; they shouldn't nerf the cargo capacity of the JF.

It's almost disingenuous; the very hull and structure of the ship itself IS the cargo bay.

I hope between now and the Summer that they re-allocate the characteristics of the JF to allow for player to up-armor the thing with low slots, or mid-slots for shields. Anything, but don't nerf the sine qua non of the class of ship, which is the ability to HAUL things. Please.



It's almost as if they're using this as an opportunity to "give back" what you've already had in your ship, but now you have to PAY to gain that old ability.

Is it intended to be an ISK sink?!
Demonica Mortis
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#492 - 2014-05-18 03:13:10 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
I was looking forward to the ADDED CHOICE these changes would bring, but instead they REMOVE CHOICECry

Pre-Kronos Charon: 785,000
Post-Kronos Charon: 550,000

Post-Kronos Rigs:
Rig 1: No choice - Capital Cargohold Optimization II (20% for 660,000), -150 Calibration
Rig 2: No choice - Capital Cargohold Optimization II (20% for 792,000), -150 Calibration
Rig 3: Limited Choice, 100 Calibration
Cost: 1.45 billion ISK at current market prices [likely higher post-Kronos]

Can't fit a structure rig in the optional slot, as it will reduce cargohold /facepalm

The only logical possibility is a Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I or II.



WHY should ships that large...be limited to only three (3) rig slots? Seriously. Why not allow ships of that size class five (5) rig slots?

Let us outfit and customize our beloved freighters. Let us at least make an attempt to outfit them versus ganking. Give us some REAL options, please. Pretty please.
Axe Coldon
#493 - 2014-05-18 03:17:57 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Axe Coldon wrote:
What I don't get is why is a cargo nerf necessary to this change.
Because you'd be able to get too much cargo space otherwise.


That is absurd. Nerf the normal freighters cargo I don't care. but getting 500k in a jf is not too much.

Its like CCP is trying to force us into building in null. Its a sandbox. Where we build should be up to us. Not make draconian changes so we have to follow their idea of where and how industry should be conducted.

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Demonica Mortis
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#494 - 2014-05-18 03:18:52 UTC
Marcus Gord wrote:
so the post Kronos Charon will have less cargo at freighter 5 than the Fenrir gets right now, with freighter 0.

this smells rotten.





What we need is a consortium of players who can put forward proposals advocating changes (buffs/nerfs) to freighters. Buffs. In other words, the experts in the field--those who live and breath these classes of ships.

Also, anyone on CCP who, in their heart, can be an ADVOCATE of haulers. And the players who represent what is best of the haulers should be in contact with his counterpart (the "Hauler Ombudsman," let's say) who can together propose changes to that class of ships. Right now, it feels that nobody is defending our interests.

What say ye?

Let's recommend an Ombudsman. Idea
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#495 - 2014-05-18 03:19:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Barton Breau
I dont get why everyone is so upset, this is EXACTLY what you argue for, when arguing for streamlining and balance.

A dull game where you have none of those.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#496 - 2014-05-18 03:19:57 UTC
I am quite sure they were not nerfed to make room for the rigs. Those were just an afterthought to sell the straight up nerf of the freighters that were considered too good at what they were doing.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#497 - 2014-05-18 03:20:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenneth Feld
OK, I am trying to be nice, thoughtful and concise

I even made a spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TYU__8DwIT0Qa7NphPZnDCOhGpzIKJ2aEd-k3EOUHu0/edit?usp=sharing

The biggest qualm I have with all of this is the efficiency of a JF

If you look at the isotope per M3 for each JF, they all got a boost, except the Rhea, it numbers are almost stagnant. Personally, I would like to see fuel burn normalized, but not nerfing the cargo nearly as much would also be an outcome I would scream about.

I also added in the additional fuel burn and it get even more skewed

I'm not saying not to do the change, just wondering why the Rhea took such a large (87,000m3) hit when the rest took a much smaller (75,000 - 78,000m3) hit

here is a graphic that also proves my point: http://i.imgur.com/Qft5dpC.jpg
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#498 - 2014-05-18 03:21:31 UTC
The tears in this thread are almost as delicious as being able to make a freighter have a better tank.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Justin Cody
War Firm
#499 - 2014-05-18 03:24:24 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Normally I am all about how Eve is a harsh, dark universe where death and mayhem lurk around every corner, but some things in life just suck. Logistics is one of those things. If I had a forty right now, I'd pour some out for all the freighter and jump freighter pilots who got kicked in the crotch today.

This whole thing reminds me of the poor crippled kid joke. He's walking along with one arm all crippled and crooked and the other nice and strong and straight. He sees a church, goes inside and prays devoutly, "Dear Lord, please make both my arms the same." Our omniscient Creator hears his plea and promptly grants his wish. The kid now has two crippled and crooked arms.



^^THIS^^ A Thousand times this!
Allison A'vani
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#500 - 2014-05-18 03:26:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Allison A'vani
Tippia wrote:
Simulacrum Clone wrote:
If you had any sincere compassion for freighter pilots, and a higher intelligence for customer satisfaction, you would have left the stats alone, but included 3 rigs for standard freighters, two for jump freighters and included one high, medium and low slot.

So now “compassion“ and “intelligence” has been synonymous with “throwing balance out the window” and “making changes without any concern for the repercussions”. Interesting…

Wilfully breaking the game doesn't seem particularly compassionate or intelligent.

Of course, the real problem here is that the intelligent thing to do would have been to ignore all the requests for fitting options on freighters, but unfortunately the devs are if anything too compassionate and just wanted to give these players what they had been begging for for so long.



Pretty much. Everyone who wanted rigs or fittings for Freighter / JF are dumb imo. They are perfectly balanced the way they are now.

This feels incarna level stupid. Might be time to purge Fozzie from the dev team and get someone new.