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[Kronos] Freighters and Jump Freighters Rebalance [Updated]

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#401 - 2014-05-17 22:38:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Realistically all JF pilots in eve will fork over the billion isk for cargo rigs, while paying more for fuel. Yay, whatever. If you can afford the JF, you can afford the rigs.

Freighters get to chose two of the following:
--loooooonger align times. Yay.
--less cargo space. Meh, I never ran fully loaded anyway.
--Less tank. Easier to gank. Yay.

Regardless of what you pick, you get f***ed in the a**. But you get to choose precisely how you get f***** in the a**. So they whine and dine you first, and THEN you get your choice of ribbed, lubed, or dry. Wonderful.


Out of... curiosity, let's call it, which one is ribbed, which is lubed, and which is dry?

[edit: Ah, great, first post on this page. Just watch this get deleted.

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Klazktrknuitzksalikamono
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#402 - 2014-05-17 22:38:37 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
actually something i'm genuinely curious about.

since we've got a substantial amount of people saying how bad these changes will be; where were you all every time some one opened up a new thread asking for the exact change you're all being so negative about?


There are millions of stupid changes suggested. Only when they are entertained by CCP do they show any real change of being implemented. Wasting your time shooting down stupid suggestions that have no chance of being implemented would suck.
Alner Greyl
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#403 - 2014-05-17 22:39:08 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
actually something i'm genuinely curious about.

since we've got a substantial amount of people saying how bad these changes will be; where were you all every time some one opened up a new thread asking for the exact change you're all being so negative about?


Nobody expected such changes Big smile
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#404 - 2014-05-17 22:39:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Kenneth Feld wrote:


Or
You can have cargo rigs nerf structure.
Agi rigs nerf structure
Hull rigs nerf cargo



The penalties of rigs are tiny, and aren't really a meaningful tradeoff.. You could fit one of each and the penalties are so low with rigging V u now straight buffed ur freighter when it was in no need of a buff.

Dirk MacGirk wrote:


Not by much for an extreme price
Not by much and not enough to matter.
Not by much and who gives a shite

So what was the point?


capacity is powerful for a freighter. u want a straight 70% buff to capacity? hell no.
with hull rigs adding around 70% hp, yeah it is.
speed is useful for freighters, and if u dnt think ppl give a ****, read the hull rig thread.

the point is players wanted choice. they got it. dnt cry at me boy, i was one of the ones saying that this would happen if freighters got rigs and/or slots.

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Buzz Dura
S0utherN Comfort
#405 - 2014-05-17 22:39:50 UTC
and what about a little buff to the range ?

Max Jump Range: 5 > 6.5 lightyears ?
Dave Stark
#406 - 2014-05-17 22:41:25 UTC
Alner Greyl wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
actually something i'm genuinely curious about.

since we've got a substantial amount of people saying how bad these changes will be; where were you all every time some one opened up a new thread asking for the exact change you're all being so negative about?


Nobody expected such changes Big smile


yes they did. that's why half the posts in this thread are people like me, tippia, and half of goons being rather smug.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#407 - 2014-05-17 22:41:36 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Realistically all JF pilots in eve will fork over the billion isk for cargo rigs, while paying more for fuel. Yay, whatever. If you can afford the JF, you can afford the rigs.

Freighters get to chose two of the following:
--loooooonger align times. Yay.
--less cargo space. Meh, I never ran fully loaded anyway.
--Less tank. Easier to gank. Yay.

Regardless of what you pick, you get f***ed in the a**. But you get to choose precisely how you get f***** in the a**. So they whine and dine you first, and THEN you get your choice of ribbed, lubed, or dry. Wonderful.


Out of... curiosity, let's call it, which one is ribbed, which is lubed, and which is dry?

[edit: Ah, great, first post on this page. Just watch this get deleted.

Longer align is ribbed. Less cargo is lubed. Less tank is dry.
Batolemaeus
Mahlstrom
Northern Associates.
#408 - 2014-05-17 22:41:41 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
actually something i'm genuinely curious about.

since we've got a substantial amount of people saying how bad these changes will be; where were you all every time some one opened up a new thread asking for the exact change you're all being so negative about?


If I spent my time shouting down all the stupid "ideas" being posted all the time I would've probably killed someone and gotten locked away in an asylum for the criminally insane by now.
Talcuris
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#409 - 2014-05-17 22:44:15 UTC
Batolemaeus wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

i thought JFs were the magical teleportation technique used to move things from one side of eve, to the other?


Sure, if you ignore all the things that make them not a magical teleportation technique, like the fuel cost, the need for a dozen cyno alts and the soul crushing annoyances of logistics.


And let's not forget the travel back through high sec where anyone can suicide you and get a sweet 8+b killmail for very little cost and effort.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#410 - 2014-05-17 22:45:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Maldiro Selkurk
Ive noticed something in this discussion, that those that didnt want freighters changes are now coming here in droves claiming all we wanted on freighters were rigs, I was heavily involved in those discussions and I; as well as you, know that that was not the limit of what we were suggesting.

We wanted flexiblity, just like the ORCA, rigs, highs, mids, lows, the whole deal, to now claim all we wanted is rigs is just cheap ass bullshit.

The costs for that change could have been mitigated by just reclassifying freighters as 'large' instead of capital since they walk like a large, talk like a large and act like a large (in that they can go into highsec) anyways.

But this takes creativity something that seems sorely lacking in this sadly comical 'solution'.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Anthar Thebess
#411 - 2014-05-17 22:45:58 UTC
Good idea at first , massive nerf after all items where disclosed.

Especially in case of JF.
You have to remember that hauling will be more expensive after fuel requirement changes.
Why not increase fuel requirements for super capitals and at the same time increase bonus on fuel consumption for jump freighters from 10% to 20%?

So :
1. Increase fuel requirements for massive super capital ships by 3-4 times.
2. Increase fuel reduction bonus on all Jump Freighters from 10 to 20% per level

THEN
think about reducing cargoholds of those ships.

Reducing swarms of super capitals will be good for eve, but reducing ability to haul subcapital supplies for smaller groups will eventually reduce the amount of fun people can have in this game.

Less fun > less players > less fun > Less players ....

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Paranoid Loyd
#412 - 2014-05-17 22:46:26 UTC
So lets talk about the HPs of a max cargo rigged freighter, has anyone done the math on how many, catalysts / talos are required after the changes? Pirate

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

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Dave Stark
#413 - 2014-05-17 22:47:11 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
The costs for that change could have been mitigated by just reclassifying freighters as 'large' instead of capital since they walk like a large, talk like a large and act like a large (in that they can go into highsec) anyways.

gotta admit, i too was expecting large rigs like the orca rather than capital rigs.
Alner Greyl
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#414 - 2014-05-17 22:49:12 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Alner Greyl wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
actually something i'm genuinely curious about.

since we've got a substantial amount of people saying how bad these changes will be; where were you all every time some one opened up a new thread asking for the exact change you're all being so negative about?


Nobody expected such changes Big smile


yes they did. that's why half the posts in this thread are people like me, tippia, and half of goons being rather smug.


I expected nerf. I didn't expect such nerf. agility+tank+fuel cost+cargo don't you think that's too much for JF?
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate
#415 - 2014-05-17 22:50:12 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
So lets talk about the HPs of a max cargo rigged freighter, has anyone done the math on how many, catalysts / talos are required after the changes? Pirate


Yes. Miniluv has and Burn Jita 4 will be both easier and with higher killmail values.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#416 - 2014-05-17 22:51:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
Ew... Not good changes imo.

Yes they are getting rigs but all of them are nerfed to hell. I can't believe JFs are loosing that many cubic meters while still having the 50% increase in fuel costs......

I don't know what JFs did to you but again, holy sh...

Also the difference in terms of cargohold between caldari and matarr ones is now too thin to justify such a difference in agility and speed.

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Dave Stark
#417 - 2014-05-17 22:51:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Alner Greyl wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Alner Greyl wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
actually something i'm genuinely curious about.

since we've got a substantial amount of people saying how bad these changes will be; where were you all every time some one opened up a new thread asking for the exact change you're all being so negative about?


Nobody expected such changes Big smile


yes they did. that's why half the posts in this thread are people like me, tippia, and half of goons being rather smug.


I expected nerf. I didn't expect such nerf. agility+tank+fuel cost+cargo don't you think that's too much for JF?


fuel cost doesn't really have anything to do with this. that's happening regardless. it's also not happening until crius either.
Alner Greyl
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#418 - 2014-05-17 22:52:29 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Alner Greyl wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Alner Greyl wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
actually something i'm genuinely curious about.

since we've got a substantial amount of people saying how bad these changes will be; where were you all every time some one opened up a new thread asking for the exact change you're all being so negative about?


Nobody expected such changes Big smile


yes they did. that's why half the posts in this thread are people like me, tippia, and half of goons being rather smug.


I expected nerf. I didn't expect such nerf. agility+tank+fuel cost+cargo don't you think that's too much for JF?


fuel cost doesn't really have anything to do with this. that's happening regardless.

Agree about fuel. But in summary we have what we have Sad
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#419 - 2014-05-17 22:52:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Ive noticed something in this discussion, that those that didnt want freighters changes are now coming here in droves claiming all we wanted on freighters were rigs, I was heavily involved in those discussions and I; as well as you, know that that was not the limit of what we were suggesting.

We wanted flexiblity, just like the ORCA, rigs, highs, mids, lows, the whole deal, to now claim all we wanted is rigs is just cheap ass bullshit.

The costs for that change could have been mitigated by just reclassifying freighters as 'large' instead of capital since they walk like a large, talk like a large and act like a large (in that they can go into highsec) anyways.

But this takes creativity something that seems sorely lacking in this sadly comical 'solution'.


even if those highs mids and lows would come with even more nerfs?

making the rigs large may be one way to go. but most complaints at the prices seem to be because they want to fit T2 rigs. T1's are less than 100mil a piece in Hek.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Angelina Duvolle
Homeworld Technologies
#420 - 2014-05-17 22:53:35 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
actually something i'm genuinely curious about.

since we've got a substantial amount of people saying how bad these changes will be; where were you all every time some one opened up a new thread asking for the exact change you're all being so negative about?



Dude can u please post one more time saying "but you asked for this"
We haven't gotten the "told you so" message the first 16 times you have posted it. Ugh

BTW to answer your silliness, when people asked for rigs or modules, they didn't think ccp would play their 29% nerf/30% buff game. Why? I don't know, can't tell you. Maybe they haven't been around that long? Maybe they believe in unicorns? I pretty much expected we'd get screwed.