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Restrict NPC Corporation Posting Abilities.

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La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2014-05-17 06:10:10 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Ihold Foru wrote:


You've said it yourself, UNFAIRLY PUNISHES NEWBIES. So does the original reason you posted this topic.


I specifically accommodated for newbies by allowing New Citizens discussion.

The one year + troll posting alt is not a newbie and is the target of this suggestion.

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Tsane Uchonela
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#42 - 2014-05-17 06:11:19 UTC
I was suggesting those stipulations on the same forums you would want to restrict, but I think you are being deliberately obtuse. There are plenty of bitter vet trolls and trolls from player corporations on these forums but I guess you think they are a-ok because they are not in an NPC corp, and what this boils down to is just another get rid of NPC corps post right?
Ihold Foru
#43 - 2014-05-17 06:11:21 UTC
If it's an unstoppable tide, then why don't more people use the report funciton? Things are already put in place, they just have to be utilized. Why restrict the masses on the account of a few?

Not a forum alt. http://eveboard.com/pilot/Ihold_Foru
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2014-05-17 06:15:03 UTC
Tsane Uchonela wrote:
I was suggesting those stipulations on the same forums you would want to restrict, but I think you are being deliberately obtuse. There are plenty of bitter vet trolls and trolls from player corporations on these forums but I guess you think they are a-ok because they are not in an NPC corp, and what this boils down to is just another get rid of NPC corps post right?


You should explain the context of your suggestions so there aren't misinterpretations.

Sure there are older characters in player corporations that you can meaningfully affect should you choose to. For example you could find me in highsec and try to kill me since I always have some sort of killright on me for doing bad things in highsec. You could affect the player's corporation in some way. However that NPC corporation posting alt I cannot do anything meaningful to because they do not log in or undock. Also they are completely recyclable.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#45 - 2014-05-17 06:16:27 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
You're assuming that's the only character on the account?

It's the most developed character on the account. If they're never undocking it, again, they've paid high up-front cost to troll the forums.
La Nariz wrote:
I'm not assuming its locked to the highest SP character because that still allows no meaningful consequences since that character could still sit in an NPC corporation while an alt did all the meaningful stuff.

"Your highest SP character is now stationbound for the rest of his life" is a meaningful consequence. It's far, far more meaningful than a war dec.

I find it odd how you so readily dismiss the consequence of spending real-world money, and yet think being a member of Shipspinner LTD is a major barrier to forum trolls.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2014-05-17 06:16:49 UTC
Ihold Foru wrote:
If it's an unstoppable tide, then why don't more people use the report funciton? Things are already put in place, they just have to be utilized. Why restrict the masses on the account of a few?


It gets to the point that the NPC corporation posting alt has derailed a thread or trolled a thread so many times the only option left is to lock it. The report button is not nearly as helpful as you think because they can interdict meaningful discussion with no consequence.

However if you have something vulnerable like a corporation full of your friends you have to think twice about posting something inflammatory.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Tsane Uchonela
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#47 - 2014-05-17 06:21:35 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Tsane Uchonela wrote:
I was suggesting those stipulations on the same forums you would want to restrict, but I think you are being deliberately obtuse. There are plenty of bitter vet trolls and trolls from player corporations on these forums but I guess you think they are a-ok because they are not in an NPC corp, and what this boils down to is just another get rid of NPC corps post right?


You should explain the context of your suggestions so there aren't misinterpretations.

Sure there are older characters in player corporations that you can meaningfully affect should you choose to. For example you could find me in highsec and try to kill me since I always have some sort of killright on me for doing bad things in highsec. You could affect the player's corporation in some way. However that NPC corporation posting alt I cannot do anything meaningful to because they do not log in or undock. Also they are completely recyclable.



And this is why an SP thresh hold and/or active training que would work because some one actively training an account is unlikely to use it simply to troll and recycle it, once again you are trying to punish a whole lot of people for a small sub set of peoples actions.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2014-05-17 06:21:54 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Komi Toran wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
You're assuming that's the only character on the account?

It's the most developed character on the account. If they're never undocking it, again, they've paid high up-front cost to troll the forums.

"Your highest SP character is now stationbound for the rest of his life" is a meaningful consequence. It's far, far more meaningful than a war dec.

I find it odd how you so readily dismiss the consequence of spending real-world money, and yet think being a member of Shipspinner LTD is a major barrier to forum trolls.


Trolling the forums is against the forum rules there is no pay to break rules option.

SP has far less value than many people put on it hence my alliance's success.

I think it is a major barrier because it takes :effort: which is a huge limiter in the game.

I dismiss the consequence of spending real world money because we all spend some to play the game. Its literally the equalizer between everyone we all paid something to play the game. The only privilege it gives us is the ability to log in.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2014-05-17 06:26:43 UTC
Tsane Uchonela wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Tsane Uchonela wrote:
I was suggesting those stipulations on the same forums you would want to restrict, but I think you are being deliberately obtuse. There are plenty of bitter vet trolls and trolls from player corporations on these forums but I guess you think they are a-ok because they are not in an NPC corp, and what this boils down to is just another get rid of NPC corps post right?


You should explain the context of your suggestions so there aren't misinterpretations.

Sure there are older characters in player corporations that you can meaningfully affect should you choose to. For example you could find me in highsec and try to kill me since I always have some sort of killright on me for doing bad things in highsec. You could affect the player's corporation in some way. However that NPC corporation posting alt I cannot do anything meaningful to because they do not log in or undock. Also they are completely recyclable.



And this is why an SP thresh hold and/or active training que would work because some one actively training an account is unlikely to use it simply to troll and recycle it, once again you are trying to punish a whole lot of people for a small sub set of peoples actions.


Not really I'll give you an example of what I end up doing:

-Create a fresh character,

-Use it to awox as many people as I can,

-When its to hot too awox anymore train some skill people want (super cap holder, market alt, etc.)

-Sell character via character bazaar,

-Begin anew.

Now I could use this character as the NPC corporation posting alts do during that period but, I don't and I want that sort of behavior to stop. That's an actively training account that could be acting as the NPC corporation posting alts do with no consequences ad infinitum. Who are the "whole lot of people" that this would unreasonably punish give examples?

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Tsane Uchonela
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#50 - 2014-05-17 06:32:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsane Uchonela
Not really I'll give you an example of what I end up doing:

-Create a fresh character,

-Use it to awox as many people as I can,

-When its to hot too awox anymore train some skill people want (super cap holder, market alt, etc.)

-Sell character via character bazaar,

-Begin anew.

Now I could use this character as the NPC corporation posting alts do during that period but, I don't and I want that sort of behavior to stop. That's an actively training account that could be acting as the NPC corporation posting alts do with no consequences ad infinitum. Who are the "whole lot of people" that this would unreasonably punish give examples?[/quote]


The whole lot of people would be the several hundreds or thousands in NPC corporations who may like to use the forums to discuss things or interact with others that you are cutting off from large swaths of the forums because a few dozen may be trolls. If you are using a character to do above things and trolling the forums the account should be banned for the forum trolling thus precluding any sale.
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#51 - 2014-05-17 06:38:23 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Trolling the forums is against the forum rules there is no pay to break rules option.

Great. It's against the rules. So the people trolling get banned.

Except that's not how you've been using the term here. Sure, it's part of what you're complaining about. But what you really want is to be able to hunt down smack-talkers and make them pay. That's the whole "consequences" thing you're going after.
La Nariz wrote:
SP has far less value than many people put on it hence my alliance's success.

If people put value on SP, then it has value. Period. End of story.
La Nariz wrote:
I think it is a major barrier because it takes :effort: which is a huge limiter in the game.

I'm sorry, I had to get some Windex for my computer screen. Effort. Good one. Five minutes worth? My proposal requires commitment. That's a much bigger hurdle than finding the Smack Talk LLC recruiting thread.
La Nariz wrote:
I dismiss the consequence of spending real world money because we all spend some to play the game. Its literally the equalizer between everyone we all paid something to play the game. The only privilege it gives us is the ability to log in.

Well, you can type words, I'll give you that. The next step is infusing them with logic.

"We all spend some to play the game"

Except, of course, in this case we're talking about someone spending money and, instead of playing the game, has decided it's more important to poke the hornet's nest on the forums and doesn't want any unforeseen consequences. So someone is spending money just to do that.

"Its literally the equalizer"

Have I been gone for so long that Multiboxers and PLEX traders are no longer in the game?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2014-05-17 06:39:59 UTC
Tsane Uchonela wrote:

The whole lot of people would be the several hundreds or thousands in NPC corporations who may like to use the forums to discuss things or interact with others that you are cutting off from large swaths of the forums because a few dozen may be trolls. If you are using a character to do above things and trolling the forums the account should be banned for the forum trolling thus precluding any sale.


If we consider the forum community and the CFC being lead by a forum community inspired alliance I'd say that we are the majority of the forum participants and that the "large swaths" are the minority. If what you said occurred and the accounts were banned this thread would not exist.

They are not blocked off from the forums either, they can still voice their opinions in: New citizens, recruitment, F&I and character bazaar. They retain functionality they just don't get the benefits of other people who are actually subject to consequences.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2014-05-17 06:46:14 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:


Great. It's against the rules. So the people trolling get banned.

Except that's not how you've been using the term here. Sure, it's part of what you're complaining about. But what you really want is to be able to hunt down smack-talkers and make them pay. That's the whole "consequences" thing you're going after.

If people put value on SP, then it has value. Period. End of story.

I'm sorry, I had to get some Windex for my computer screen. Effort. Good one. Five minutes worth? My proposal requires commitment. That's a much bigger hurdle than finding the Smack Talk LLC recruiting thread.

Well, you can type words, I'll give you that. The next step is infusing them with logic.

"We all spend some to play the game"

Except, of course, in this case we're talking about someone spending money and, instead of playing the game, has decided it's more important to poke the hornet's nest on the forums and doesn't want any unforeseen consequences. So someone is spending money just to do that.

"Its literally the equalizer"

Have I been gone for so long that Multiboxers and PLEX traders are no longer in the game?


-Except they don't get banned the same alts are still there to this day.

-I want there to be consequences for their actions like anything else in the game.

-SP doesn't have the value you claim it does.

-:Effort: is a big deal why do you think afktars are popular right now?

-Once again there is no spend money to break forum rules option. Why do you think paying for a subscription entitles the person to violate forum rulles/TOS/EULA?

-Multiboxing that person has paid extra for the privelege of logging an extra account in. PLEX you pay your subscription with someone else' money.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Iudicium Vastus
Doomheim
#54 - 2014-05-17 06:49:36 UTC
afkalt wrote:


No, no.

The universal forum alt corp™ would pop up.


Starting with mine here! bwahahahah!

Anyways, just wanted to touch on the particular point of people being bent on wanting to do something in-game for something said out-of-game (the forums). For people who argue that those who cry "sociopath" are just whiny and can't separate game from real life, you sure are wanting desperately to connect the game and real life.

And yet still, wanting to violence someone for merely having a different opinion on a matter such as when we discuss wardecs or Faction Warfare, taking the route to 'dec/gank the opinion holder is quite an admittance that they are right. Those that can't argue and facilitate a proper retort are the ones who then use violence in an attempt to shut someone up.

Any game and its 'forum' should rightfully be treated as different entities. Think of how petty and trifling it would be if someone began harassing you in-game for a line you posted on a youtube video related to the game in question, or in the comments section of a news site for the same game. We consider these out-of-game, outside, and IRL activities. Hardly different than posting on said game's forums. And there are those who would want to bring a meshing of game and rl? How daft.

[u]Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW?[/u] No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too)
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#55 - 2014-05-17 06:53:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
Rather than decrease player freedom, perhaps we could address the problem by increasing it.

Rather than blocking NPC corp members from posting, perhaps it would be better to allow us to ignore by corp. Thus rather than ignore TrollyMcAlt of The Scope, La Nariz would simply be able to ignore everyone in The Scope.

Then those people who find that reading NPC corp member posts decreases the utility of the forums for them can easily avoid doing so. If sufficient numbers of players agree, then the trolling opportunities would greatly decrease.

Taking a leaf from the standing system, a useful refinement could be to allow individual "forum standings" - ie have the "corp ignore" not be a seperate flag as such, but a batch job that sets the ignore flag for all members, but allows people override that on an individual basis. So when La Nariz sets The Scope to ignore, he's effectively individually ignoring every member of The Scope at once.

So then if La Lariz was impressed by the posting of a specific exceptional (or temporary) NPC corp member in the Scope, he could just uncheck the ignore flag for that member and read her posts, whilst continuing to ignore by default everyone else in The Scope

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2014-05-17 06:54:27 UTC
Iudicium Vastus wrote:

Starting with mine here! bwahahahah!

Anyways, just wanted to touch on the particular point of people being bent on wanting to do something in-game for something said out-of-game (the forums). For people who argue that those who cry "sociopath" are just whiny and can't separate game from real life, you sure are wanting desperately to connect the game and real life.

And yet still, wanting to violence someone for merely having a different opinion on a matter such as when we discuss wardecs or Faction Warfare, taking the route to 'dec/gank the opinion holder is quite an admittance that they are right. Those that can't argue and facilitate a proper retort are the ones who then use violence in an attempt to shut someone up.

Any game and its 'forum' should rightfully be treated as different entities. Think of how petty and trifling it would be if someone began harassing you in-game for a line you posted on a youtube video related to the game in question, or in the comments section of a news site for the same game. We consider these out-of-game, outside, and IRL activities. Hardly different than posting on said game's forums. And there are those who would want to bring a meshing of game and rl? How daft.


Emergent gameplay right here.

I've already answered "the forums aren't part of the game" so I'm going to quote myself in refutation of your point.

La Nariz wrote:
Its a medium provided for and by the game. It also requires an active subscription to post so for all intents and purposes its part of the game. Remember I am also a paying customer so what gives you the benefit of trolling/derailing my threads without consequence? Why should you be shielded from awoxing, wardecs, and forum misbehavior for free? Player corporations are also in need of more incentives when compared to NPC corporations.


No one is bringing up RL, doxing is not okay and claiming actions in a video game reflect anything in RL is wrong. Please no more terrible tangents completely unrelated to the thread.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Tsane Uchonela
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#57 - 2014-05-17 06:54:27 UTC

If we consider the forum community and the CFC being lead by a forum community inspired alliance I'd say that we are the majority of the forum participants and that the "large swaths" are the minority. If what you said occurred and the accounts were banned this thread would not exist.

They are not blocked off from the forums either, they can still voice their opinions in: New citizens, recruitment, F&I and character bazaar. They retain functionality they just don't get the benefits of other people who are actually subject to consequences.[/quote]

So that's what it breaks down to? 'We are CFC we are special and darn it, don't we deserve total control over the forums?' So because I am in an NPC corp I should not be able to share stuff in OOPE? There are plenty of NPC corp people that post in Intergalactic Summit and hardly any trolls, but too bad for them they are not in the CFC the largest and by right the most deserving members of the entire community? I cannot go to post in the CSM forums (yes I voted) and give my elected representatives my feed back because I am in a lowly NPC corp and not part of the blue doughnut? Really? Discriminating against any minority is looked down upon in most of the civilized world. If the trolls are not being banned the answer is to tighten enforcement not to take things away from people who are obeying the rules.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2014-05-17 06:55:49 UTC
Tsane Uchonela wrote:

So that's what it breaks down to? 'We are CFC we are special and darn it, don't we deserve total control over the forums?' So because I am in an NPC corp I should not be able to share stuff in OOPE? There are plenty of NPC corp people that post in Intergalactic Summit and hardly any trolls, but too bad for them they are not in the CFC the largest and by right the most deserving members of the entire community? I cannot go to post in the CSM forums (yes I voted) and give my elected representatives my feed back because I am in a lowly NPC corp and not part of the blue doughnut? Really? Discriminating against any minority is looked down upon in most of the civilized world. If the trolls are not being banned the answer is to tighten enforcement not to take things away from people who are obeying the rules.


No the point was the NPC corporation posters when considering the forum population are not the majority as you claim they are. I'm open to adjusting which forums should be available if you can justify why that should be allowed.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2014-05-17 06:57:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
nice way to alienate new players even more.... let's make a whole new group of second class citizens. What?
There are already some forum sections where they are unwelcome.. why shift from that?

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2014-05-17 06:58:33 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Rather than decrease player freedom, perhaps we could address the problem by increasing it.

Rather than blocking NPC corp members from posting, perhaps it would be better to allow us to ignore by corp. Thus rather than ignore TrollyMcAlt of The Scope, La Nariz would simply be able to ignore everyone in The Scope.

Then those people who find that reading NPC corp member posts decreases the utility of the forums for them can easily avoid doing so. If sufficient numbers of players agree, then the trolling opportunities would greatly decrease.

Taking a leaf from the standing system, a useful refinement could be to allow individual "forum standings" - ie have the "corp ignore" not be a seperate flag as such, but a batch job that sets the ignore flag for all members, but allows people override that on an individual basis. So when La Nariz sets The Scope to ignore, he's effectively individually ignoring every member of The Scope at once.

So then if La Lariz was impressed by the posting of a specific exceptional (or temporary) NPC corp member in the Scope, he could just uncheck the ignore flag for that member and read her posts, whilst continuing to ignore by default everyone else in The Scope


This is a pretty good alternative idea, I'm going to put it in the OP.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133