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Restrict NPC Corporation Posting Abilities.

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Ihold Foru
#21 - 2014-05-17 05:24:29 UTC
And for reference, I have thought on the side of the table where you are sitting, and my solution to this problem wouldn't be restricting people from access to parts of the forum, but to add something called an "approve comment" button. If the poster wants to keep trolls out of his thread, then he would have the ability to approve comments before public eyes could see them. This would, in turn, most likely create a delay in which people had the ability to get knowledge out there, but I think this would be a limited function of the actual Corp part of the forum.

Not a forum alt. http://eveboard.com/pilot/Ihold_Foru
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2014-05-17 05:24:40 UTC
Ihold Foru wrote:
I still don't believe that I should be restricted to participate in threads on the forums just because I don't want to be in a corporation. I've been there, done that, and it's not my thing. With that being said, I don't believe that my subscription fee should restrict me from accessing the same content that you access with your subscription fee, just because you are in a player corp. Just curious, did you think about that side of the conversation, or are you hellbent on defending your side of the conversation, just because a few people that wish to remain anonymous gave you a rough time?


I've thought about it quite a bit and I feel its a fair trade-off. You still get to vote in the CSM elections, be shielded from wardecs and immune to awoxing. Those are some huge benefits player corporations have to compete with. My suggestion has newbies in mind so they get new citizens, it has the character seller in mind so they get the bazaar, it allows all players to voice their opinion on the direction of EVE hence F&I. I don't feel you should be free to come derail, troll my thread or get it locked because you don't like my corp/alliance/me and hide behind npc corporation protection as well as anonymity. You literally have no consequence for your action and there is literally no downside to you biomassing your posting alt so you can continue to do the above ad infitum. We both paid the same subscription so why should you get the preferential treatment for being in an NPC corporation?

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#23 - 2014-05-17 05:26:35 UTC
If the problem is not being allowed to link an active character with the poster, just have the forum lock profiles to the character with the most SP. Has the benefit of being less trivial to circumvent.
La Nariz wrote:
On topic one of the things the game is about is consequences and there should be consequences for your actions on the in-game forum. Why do you think you should be free of the consequences from your actions on one of the game's medium?

If you want consequences for actions on the in-game forum, then shouldn't those consequences be for actions on the in-game forum?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2014-05-17 05:28:22 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Ihold Foru wrote:
And for reference, I have thought on the side of the table where you are sitting, and my solution to this problem wouldn't be restricting people from access to parts of the forum, but to add something called an "approve comment" button. If the poster wants to keep trolls out of his thread, then he would have the ability to approve comments before public eyes could see them. This would, in turn, most likely create a delay in which people had the ability to get knowledge out there, but I think this would be a limited function of the actual Corp part of the forum.


That's an idea of merit but, it has some holes. It inhibits discussion because the OP can completely shut down discussion and create a horrible echo chamber by only approving posts that agree with them. My suggestion leaves plenty of room to express dissenting opinions.

Consider your suggestion in this thread, I could have pressed the "not approve" button for your posts and the other two posts against my idea and it would look like my thread only shows support for the idea.

An idea similar to yours that I had thought of before was a checkbox that could be selected that would treat your thread as if it was a CAOD thread only permitting people in corporations with 10+ members to post.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2014-05-17 05:30:51 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:
If the problem is not being allowed to link an active character with the poster, just have the forum lock profiles to the character with the most SP. Has the benefit of being less trivial to circumvent.
La Nariz wrote:
On topic one of the things the game is about is consequences and there should be consequences for your actions on the in-game forum. Why do you think you should be free of the consequences from your actions on one of the game's medium?

If you want consequences for actions on the in-game forum, then shouldn't those consequences be for actions on the in-game forum?


I don't think that would solve the problem because that person could continue to hide in an npc corp and experience no consequences for their actions. If we could perform actions on the in-game forums that would affect other people's posting I would agree with your question.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Ihold Foru
#26 - 2014-05-17 05:31:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Ihold Foru
La Nariz wrote:
I've thought about it quite a bit and I feel its a fair trade-off. You still get to vote in the CSM elections, be shielded from wardecs and immune to awoxing. Those are some huge benefits player corporations have to compete with. My suggestion has newbies in mind so they get new citizens, it has the character seller in mind so they get the bazaar, it allows all players to voice their opinion on the direction of EVE hence F&I. I don't feel you should be free to come derail, troll my thread or get it locked because you don't like my corp/alliance/me and hide behind npc corporation protection as well as anonymity. You literally have no consequence for your action and there is literally no downside to you biomassing your posting alt so you can continue to do the above ad infitum. We both paid the same subscription so why should you get the preferential treatment for being in an NPC corporation?


For time's sake, I ask you the question as well, why should you get the preferential treatment for being in a PLAYER corporation?

Not a forum alt. http://eveboard.com/pilot/Ihold_Foru
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-05-17 05:33:22 UTC
Ihold Foru wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
I've thought about it quite a bit and I feel its a fair trade-off. You still get to vote in the CSM elections, be shielded from wardecs and immune to awoxing. Those are some huge benefits player corporations have to compete with. My suggestion has newbies in mind so they get new citizens, it has the character seller in mind so they get the bazaar, it allows all players to voice their opinion on the direction of EVE hence F&I. I don't feel you should be free to come derail, troll my thread or get it locked because you don't like my corp/alliance/me and hide behind npc corporation protection as well as anonymity. You literally have no consequence for your action and there is literally no downside to you biomassing your posting alt so you can continue to do the above ad infitum. We both paid the same subscription so why should you get the preferential treatment for being in an NPC corporation?


For time's sake, I ask you the question as well, why should you get the preferential treatment for being in a PLAYER corporation?


I risk more than you hence I should get a greater reward than you. Remember this suggestion completely allows necessary functions of the forum like providing input on upcoming announced features, selling characters, finding a corporation, and asking newbie questions.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Ihold Foru
#28 - 2014-05-17 05:38:11 UTC
Because you risk more than me? That's your only response. It's not good enough.

The only viable option I see to your argument, is ONLY restricting access in the forum section titled:
EVE Corporations, Alliances and Organizations Center

Everything else should remain FREE ROAM for ALL players.
Besides that, get your own forums? Oh yeah, I know Goons have their own forums. With 11.5k members, I am sure that the mass of you should be able to find some good solution.

Not a forum alt. http://eveboard.com/pilot/Ihold_Foru
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-05-17 05:44:01 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
I don't think that would solve the problem because that person could continue to hide in an npc corp and experience no consequences for their actions.

For as long as they insist on remaining docked in station. Once they undock, you gank them if it's that important to you. That's more than you would be able to do with an inactive alt that's been a member of Troll Inc. for a year.
La Nariz wrote:
If we could perform actions on the in-game forums that would affect other people's posting I would agree with your question.

What you're proposing is to negatively impact a person's forum posting as a consequence of being in an NPC corp.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2014-05-17 05:45:01 UTC
Ihold Foru wrote:
Because you risk more than me? That's your only response. It's not good enough.

The only viable option I see to your argument, is ONLY restricting access in the forum section titled:
EVE Corporations, Alliances and Organizations Center

Everything else should remain FREE ROAM for ALL players.
Besides that, get your own forums? Oh yeah, I know Goons have their own forums. With 11.5k members, I am sure that the mass of you should be able to find some good solution.


Qualify that for me why is that not good enough? What is the rubric for "good enough?" Why should everything be "FREE ROAM for ALL players?" Why should a certain subset of characters be allowed to continually troll, derail, and attack other posters completely risk free while also burdening the ISD?

I'll give you an example of the risk:

Person in EVE University insults some mercenaries in C&P; the action. The result is the mercenaries declare war on EVE University; the consequence of the action.

Person in NPC corporation member trolls a thread; the action. The result nothing, they are allowed to troll the thread ad infinitum until it gets to the point the ISD haven't many options other than to lock the thread. There is nothing I as a player can do to enact a consequence against that NPC corporation member.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-05-17 05:49:14 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Komi Toran wrote:
For as long as they insist on remaining docked in station. Once they undock, you gank them if it's that important to you. That's more than you would be able to do with an inactive alt that's been a member of Troll Inc. for a year.
What you're proposing is to negatively impact a person's forum posting as a consequence of being in an NPC corp.


They never log in or undock all they've done is proceed through the character creation screen. There is literally nothing a player can do as a meaningful consequence to that NPC corporation member. Should they be required to join a corporation with 10+ active accounts as is required for CAOD posting a meaningful consequence can occur. Sure you'll have the occasional 10+ man corporation full of nothing but posting alts but, :effort: will keep that in check.

Its another thing NPC corporation members will have to sacrifice for the amazing amount of safety they are granted. It is also a really good incentive for being social in a multiplayer game and joining a player corporation.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#32 - 2014-05-17 05:55:09 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
They never log in or undock all they've done is proceed through the character creation screen.

In that case they're paying a subscription fee or buying PLEX with ISK for the sole purpose of trolling the forums. They're just taking their consequences up front. Seems a bit extreme, really. (Remember, this is in response to the idea that the character with the highest SP be locked to the forum profile)
Ihold Foru
#33 - 2014-05-17 05:56:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Ihold Foru
Maybe you meant to say "Clarify for me..." on your first line, I am guessing you did mean that, so here's your clarification. There's a little thing going around called Net Neutrality. What you are requesting here, pretty much presents the same basic functions as Net Neutrality. Maybe people want to remain anonymous. Maybe they get joy out of trolling you. Maybe, that's their style of play. Maybe, oh maybe, you should request some function that used to exist other places, known as a down vote.

If a comment gets so many down votes, then it gets deleted. But hey, that would lead to the same thing that you mentioned earlier.

Maybe, I should just say HTFU and log off for the night.

Not a forum alt. http://eveboard.com/pilot/Ihold_Foru
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2014-05-17 05:58:30 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
They never log in or undock all they've done is proceed through the character creation screen.

In that case they're paying a subscription fee or buying PLEX with ISK for the sole purpose of trolling the forums. They're just taking their consequences up front. Seems a bit extreme, really. (Remember, this is in response to the idea that the character with the highest SP be locked to the forum profile)


You're assuming that's the only character on the account? I'm not assuming its locked to the highest SP character because that still allows no meaningful consequences since that character could still sit in an NPC corporation while an alt did all the meaningful stuff.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Tsane Uchonela
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#35 - 2014-05-17 06:00:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsane Uchonela
Since when are the forums in-game? I am in an NPC corp, this is my main character. I pay for it and should be able to use all the benefits of a paying customer. I do log in I do undock, and there are some consequences for being in an NPC corp like not being able to hold half of null sec or any sovereignty at all. If you are worried about throw away NPC alts mucking up the forums then disallow trial accounts and characters without an active training or set an SP thresh hold. Your suggestion is like punishing a whole classroom because one or two people are acting up.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2014-05-17 06:01:17 UTC
Ihold Foru wrote:
Maybe you meant to say "Clarify for me..." on your first line, I am guessing you did mean that, so here's your clarification. There's a little thing going around called Net Neutrality. What you are requesting here, pretty much presents the same basic functions as Net Neutrality. Maybe people want to remain anonymous. Maybe they get joy out of trolling you. Maybe, that's their style of play. Maybe, oh maybe, you should request some function that used to exist other places, known as a down vote.

If a comment gets so many down votes, then it gets deleted. But hey, that would lead to the same thing that you mentioned earlier.

Maybe, I should just say HTFU and log off for the night.


This doesn't look like you answered any of my questions. Forum trolling is against the forum rules and I bet CCP would say its not a style of play. Yeah down voting would be a bad idea for non-organized people.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Ihold Foru
#37 - 2014-05-17 06:05:26 UTC
If forum trolling is against the rules, then why are you complaining?

Not a forum alt. http://eveboard.com/pilot/Ihold_Foru
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2014-05-17 06:06:13 UTC
Tsane Uchonela wrote:
Since when are the forums in-game? I am in an NPC corp, this is my main character. I pay for it and should be able to use all the benefits of a paying customer. I do log in I do undock, and there are some consequences for being in an NPC corp like not being able to hold half of null sec or any sovereignty at all. If you are worried about throw away NPC alts mucking up the forums then disallow trial accounts and characters without an active training or set an SP thresh hold. Your suggestion is like punishing a whole classroom because one or two people are acting up.


Its a medium provided for and by the game. It also requires an active subscription to post so for all intents and purposes its part of the game. Remember I am also a paying customer so what gives you the benefit of trolling/derailing my threads without consequence? Why should you be shielded from awoxing, wardecs, and forum misbehavior for free? Player corporations are also in need of more incentives when compared to NPC corporations.

Your suggestions:

Disallow trial accounts - bad idea because this would prevent people trying the game from posting in New Citizens which could discourage them from subscribing.

Disallow characters without active training - All I have to do is set my alt to train for 1 min to make a post circumventing this restriction.

Set an SP threshold - unfairly punishes newbies.

I don't see any of those working well.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2014-05-17 06:07:49 UTC
Ihold Foru wrote:
If forum trolling is against the rules, then why are you complaining?


I posted this thread because there is an unstoppable tide of troll NPC posting alts that never stops coming. Like I said in the OP the condition of CAOD improved after the NPC corporation ban occurred hence why I think extending it to more forums would be beneficial to increasing forum quality.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Ihold Foru
#40 - 2014-05-17 06:08:07 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Tsane Uchonela wrote:
Since when are the forums in-game? I am in an NPC corp, this is my main character. I pay for it and should be able to use all the benefits of a paying customer. I do log in I do undock, and there are some consequences for being in an NPC corp like not being able to hold half of null sec or any sovereignty at all. If you are worried about throw away NPC alts mucking up the forums then disallow trial accounts and characters without an active training or set an SP thresh hold. Your suggestion is like punishing a whole classroom because one or two people are acting up.


Its a medium provided for and by the game. It also requires an active subscription to post so for all intents and purposes its part of the game. Remember I am also a paying customer so what gives you the benefit of trolling/derailing my threads without consequence? Why should you be shielded from awoxing, wardecs, and forum misbehavior for free? Player corporations are also in need of more incentives when compared to NPC corporations.

Your suggestions:

Disallow trial accounts - bad idea because this would prevent people trying the game from posting in New Citizens which could discourage them from subscribing.

Disallow characters without active training - All I have to do is set my alt to train for 1 min to make a post circumventing this restriction.

Set an SP threshold - unfairly punishes newbies.

I don't see any of those working well.


You've said it yourself, UNFAIRLY PUNISHES NEWBIES. So does the original reason you posted this topic.

Not a forum alt. http://eveboard.com/pilot/Ihold_Foru