EVE General Discussion

Where have I said that I support botting? Can you quote me so that I can see it more clearly, because I've looked and I can't find any place where I said that I support botting.

Literally your own words, you took me refuting ignorance being spouted by crazy conspiracy theorists, that nullsec has the most bots and its all :goonspiracy:, as supporting botting in nullsec so why shouldn't your own words against nullsec botting be counted as supporting highsec botting?

As a hint I'm pointing out bad logic and we're in a agreement that all botting should be combated.

It also doesn't mean that nullsec botting should be considered the greater problem and no one, literally no one has stated that nullsec bots should be left alone. You inferred that point yourself, people have pointed out that highsec is the bigger problem because more botting occurs there. This is mostly as a response to the :goonspiracy: crowd.

I've said it many times before I shouldn't have to directly state it to you for you to figure it out. CCP has limited resources much like anyone else so to best combat botting focusing more resources on highsec than other areas makes sense. Once again this is because the numbers CCP produced show most botting occurs in highsec.

The thing is, even people you KNOW are bots rarely get banned via petition.

Actually, the logic is "Poster said they were explicitly against botting in high sec, and when asked if they were supporting botting in null sec they said botting is worse in high sec so they're against botting in high sec." I asked you about 5 times if you were against botting in null sec, to which you replied it's worse in high sec until 2 or so posts ago.

The next bit of logic is "Poster spoke out against botting in high sec in response to OP's suggestion on how to counter one kind of botting in null sec. Poster then said how there is a :goonspiracy: that's behind people saying there is botting in null sec and reiterated that it's worse in high sec."

And as for your illustration on how they should spend their limited resources, it's a great example of why it seems strange that you're saying you're against botting in null sec, and yet you want to make null sec a haven for botters. Since botters would know that CCP doesn't really do much checking for botters in null, all the botters would move to null. Not to mention, picking a single statistic and arguing that is where they should be focusing their efforts is just plain dumb. Why not focus 70% of their resources on Caldari, since over 60% of banned accounts have Caldari mains? Or they could focus most of their resources on players with just rookie ships and/or capsules, since the vast majority of accounts banned have those ships. Or perhaps they should focus their attention on that single alliance that has 21% of all botting bans attributed to them? Anybody know which alliance that is? If we could see which alliance that was, we'd be able to say CCP should just target them, right? I mean my god, we could eliminate 21% or more of all botters if CCP would just ban everybody in that alliance. One fell swoop, boom, a huge chunk of the problem gone. I'd argue that CCP should focus their resources 70:20:10, 70% on that certain alliance guilty of far more botting than the rest of us, 20% on all other alliances and 10% on NPC corps.

I disagree. It makes sense for CCP to focus on certain types of behaviour. There is no reason to discriminate based on what area of space a certain behaviour is being exhibited in. Does CCP care whether you're in a large null sec alliance when they are pondering whether to ban you for injecting code into the EVE client? I certainly hope not! Should CCP care whether you're in a large null sec alliance when they're pondering banning you for running a market bot?

The way CCP has been running their anti-botting campaign makes perfect sense: identify a type of behaviour that is clearly a bot, then ban everyone using that bot.

Are the behaviors between those sec areas going to be exactly the same?

E: If only we had someone like CCP Sreegs to come to this thread and talk about this stuff.

Yes and no. The core of a bot will be the same but the one running in null will probably have something along the line of a "check local" option enabled while the one in high sec won't. Behavior typical of a bot will be similar from one sec to another. Same delay between end of a cycle and reactivation of a module on a target, same delay between rock targetign for mining. Same delay for emptying ore hold and undock back to go mine.

Are the behaviours of ratting bots in null sec easier to distinguish from the behaviours of exuberantly ratting/missioning players in hisec? How many players will head in the opposite direction of a mobile warp disruption bubble even when they're in a POS? That kind of behaviour isn't displayed in hi sec (because no bubbles), but in null sec it's very visible, and easily detectable.

Once any kind of bot is identified and a reliable test with low false positives has been developed, CCP will likely get many more bans in hi sec than anywhere else.

But don't get distracted by the reward. You need to know what the effort is too.

If the effort of detecting a bot reliably is about one day of work, and you can ban 200 bots, is that better or worse than a more sophisticated bot used by 2000 players which requires 10 days of fine tuning your detection system? I suspect that a missioning bot is much more difficult to positively identify when the water is muddied by so many missioning players. Don't let the order of magnitude increase in reward distract you from the effort/reward ratio which is exactly the same for both cases due to the order of magnitude increase in effort. Now ask yourself which bot is most worth banning, when the smaller population bot is also so easy to detect that it only takes half an hour to get a test that doesn't produce false positives?

I Googled EVE bots and checked some stuff out. They said a lot of stuff, but there's one thing they didn't say.

What they didn't say is that these programs somehow differentiate between high,low and null sec. It's the same damn program used in all of EVE.

So if CCP takes care of it then botting in all space will be reduced.

But keep up the blame game. It's a fun read.

As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter if the (mostly null) whiners want to declare they are better because there is less overall botting in their nearly empty space as long as CCP is doing something to make detection and deletion of the accts responsible for screwing the economy. Wherever these players are locating their bots.

Now back to our regularly scheduled hyperbole.

Mr Epeen