EVE General Discussion

Right they are giving away skills to people who don't have them trained, and making SP I have already trained moot in comparison.

Get it?
Got it?
Good.

False!

i have already argued longer than it took me to train it. I used SP from learning skills to bump both SDO and CDO to level 5.

Because for some people there is concern over how this is being handled. One of the biggest reasons I'm weighing in with an opinion is because I don't want to see this become the norm for handling skills in this situation. The difference in time that I've put into my character vs. someone who's put in less time is what gives my character an edge and this fix changes that.

There are numerous changes that mean people have "wasted" SP .For example one of my industry alts just finished training ME5 and researching a batch of BPOs only to find the whole exercise was a waste of several months but I am not demanding SP reimbursement. My mission alt only JUST trained interfacing to 5 and got T2 sentries but post patch you are better off with staying at IV for both those and training something else. I am not claiming claiming reimbursemnt for that either.

1. there are numerous changes in summer patch where people are disadvantaged but no-one else is claiming SP

2. The ONLY people disadvantged by the CDO issue are the few people who DELIBERATELY trained it at the last minute to try and rort the patch system

3. Devs catering to player whining creates an entitled atmosphere and leads to further complaining which puts off prospective players and is detrimental to the game as a whole. In many ways CCP would be better with a strict "no SP eve" policy.

It doesn't matter if people tried to cash in on the patch system. CCP put it in the blog for a reason. When the battlecruiser went racial, CCP notified us about it and even informed us that if we trained to level 5 we would have all 4 racial skills to level 5. What's happening here is that someone who didn't train CDO5 gets the same benefit.

+1

I have almost perfect drone skills, so i am just screwed.



Thank you CCP. I am looking forward to training 4 races of tech II sentries for what I have now, as well as whatever else you are going to make me do. It's to early in the morning to calculate how many months that will take, but I am a paying customer so I am sure you will enjoy my money in the meantime.


So no harm done right!

It rather is. Not only are you being given free SP over those who haven't trained those skills; you are also being given — not refunded — even more SP, and solely for the petty reason that someone else accidentally got more SP than you did.

That is indeed quite a lot to ask, and it doesn't make much sense that being given stuff for free somehow means you are owed more stuff for free.

The only way a “refund” would work would be if it wasn't a refund at all, but a forced application of SP. In other words, everyone — regardless of skills — is being given the 756k extra SP that some will end up with. Next, rather than a refund, that bonus SP is reduced by how much SP is being folded into the new skill levels you earn. That way, no-one is getting more than anyone else; no-one is being “refunded” for making a profit; and only players who enter the game after the patch are left behind. This is maximum fairness. It is also minimises the status quo; the more you trained, the more others will rush ahead.

A similar effect could be achieved by just removing the skills outright and giving only pure SP back — no skill transition. So someone with both skills at V would be given 768k SP that they could fold back into the new 1024k worth of skill levels. This also maximises fairness (no-one is being given anything), but still stomps all over the status quo (if you trained any of the skills, it will be impossible to go back to your previous position).

The kind of strict hand-out people are wishing for with their not-refund is another extreme: it makes for maximum unfairness — the more you trained the more you get for free — and maintains status quo only in the sense that those ahead come out (further) ahead.

The solution CCP has chosen is really the one that maximises both fairness and status quo: the smallest possible handouts, and people end up as close as possible to where they are today. It's a compromise between the two, but that's pretty much what has to happen because what the change does makes it impossible to make it fully fair and still maintain status quo. This entire thread is about people trying to maintain a status quo (which isn't really possible since the state after the changes is inherently different from the one before; the two simply cannot be the same) while appealing to fairness. Hence why I keep calling that kind of argumentation nonsensical: it's an attempt to maximise one end of the scale by making an appeal that it will (somehow) maximise its inherently incompatible opposite.

In other words, if you want to make an argument for fairness, your argument must be for fairness (which none of them have been), and this will differ completely from any kind of status quo position. If you want to make an argument for status quo, you argument should be for status quo, which cannot possibly be fair.

For the exact same reason as why people want the refund.