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Dev Blog: Tiptoe Through the Tooltips

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Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#741 - 2014-05-16 17:18:19 UTC
Darin Vanar wrote:
Orla- King-Griffin wrote:
handbanana wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
Thanks for the constructive feedback guys. It's not being ignored, and people have been working hard on addressing your concerns as you can see with today's patch.

Please keep the feedback constructive(as many of you have of course), tell us what is bothering you so we can get a good idea of what your problem is and can hopefully address it :)

Help us to help you... or something like that P


It is still missing an off switch.

Perhaps this helps?


Can i have you stuff?



This is really unhelpful and quite demoralizing to the team trying to help. Thus not helping *us*.

We don't even know what their goals are. They could even have their order from higher up saying 'do this', and they may not have the freedom in enacting anything else right now. If people have nothing further to say, at least don't demoralize them and making them take time to read redundant posts.

Yes, they are making us read redundant tooltips but at least they are trying to communicate about this 'tooltip gate' now, so we can better understand where they are coming from as well.

i hope that was directed at the overreacting manchild threatening the team responsibly with his sub and not the person (clearly me) pointing out that he's reacting like a baby.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Guth'Alak
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#742 - 2014-05-16 17:23:26 UTC
just wanted to say THANK YOU for removing the awful popups! Big smile
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#743 - 2014-05-16 17:26:46 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hey guys

My associate CCP Rubber took care of a lot in that post so I'll be brief. I just wanted to let you know that we are working hard to process the feedback and make changes to improve your experience as fast as we can. As you know, we deployed a set of changes today and now we are in the middle of putting together another set to go out next week. I don't know exactly what will be in that list so I'll wait until closer to Tuesday to go over it.

In the mean time we welcome more input, it's been very helpful so far. As Rubberband said, we are especially focused on figuring out the best possible version of the in-space list. We definitely underestimated the impact of making changes to this piece of UI but we are extremely committed to finding an implementation that works for everyone.

Thanks again

That would be the one that gives us a degree of control over them.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Lisa Gentilette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#744 - 2014-05-16 17:48:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Lisa Gentilette
CCP RubberBAND wrote:


And to be clear we are aware that any changes to an established UI will ultimately require a lot of fine tuning to get just right and we are looking at some very specific timing issues that should alleviate some of the pain points players are raising.


You got it all backwards upside down and inside out. Sad

Timing is an issue but its not the overall problem. It's part of the problem that you created where it didn't exist before.

Redundancy, redundancy, redundancy. < = Problem.
Blocking vital parts of an already not great UI. < = Problem
Force feeding unneeded unwanted information that is already there or one click away while cluttering up the UI < = Problem


I was having dinner just now with my family, call me crazy I could not let this go. How can we fix this as CCP is stellar bound on not flinching and getting this out of our game or give an on/ off option was on my mind all the time.


Lets meet halfway, 'CCP we will not bend' vs. 'Playerbase we want a switch to turn this off'.


Tooltips, as ludicrous as they are at times are here to stay. They also are unnecessary most of the time, in our face and blocking vital information.

How about you put them into one window, a window that can have the info stacked be it horizontally or vertically, and positioned left, right, top or bottom on a users discretion. Like what we can do with targets or the ship control panel.


Problem by and large solved.
Phoehnix
Swiss Tax Avoidance Bank Inc
#745 - 2014-05-16 17:50:30 UTC
Awesome work on the tooltips! :)
As some people have said, you might want to add an option of disabling them (even though i wouldn't use this myself).
You could also add an option for 'extended' tooltips (see starcraft 2), which contains a longer descriptive text, in addition to what's already shown, like for example "Increases Shield / Armor / Hull resistances when activated", and then showing the bonuses, on a damage control.

Please add tooltips for the ESC menu next :)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#746 - 2014-05-16 17:51:48 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hey guys

My associate CCP Rubber took care of a lot in that post so I'll be brief. I just wanted to let you know that we are working hard to process the feedback and make changes to improve your experience as fast as we can. As you know, we deployed a set of changes today and now we are in the middle of putting together another set to go out next week. I don't know exactly what will be in that list so I'll wait until closer to Tuesday to go over it.

In the mean time we welcome more input, it's been very helpful so far. As Rubberband said, we are especially focused on figuring out the best possible version of the in-space list. We definitely underestimated the impact of making changes to this piece of UI but we are extremely committed to finding an implementation that works for everyone.

Thanks again


The best possible version of the in space list was the previous one.

The one that didn't block off a portion of your screen.

I don't care about pretty, I don't care about aesthetics, I care about functionality and functionality only.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#747 - 2014-05-16 17:52:28 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Thanks for the constructive feedback guys. It's not being ignored, and people have been working hard on addressing your concerns as you can see with today's patch.

Please keep the feedback constructive(as many of you have of course), tell us what is bothering you so we can get a good idea of what your problem is and can hopefully address it :)

Help us to help you... or something like that P


Forum ate my post, the gist was

1) They should be tool aids, not tools themselves. Tooltips should be non intrusive.

2) The information needs to have a toggle between a new player level of "This is a crow. It is a tech 2 frigate. It is locking you" and a more advanced player tooltip of something like "Michael Harari, Genos, [Hydra], +5 standing" or on a stargate something like "35 kills in last hour" or "Lowsec (.3).

3) Allowing us to customize tooltips would go a long way to making them useful to everyone. Some people might want tooltips on an astroid telling them something about mining, I couldnt care less about that. The miner wouldnt really care about what I would want on tool tips either.

Lisa Gentilette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#748 - 2014-05-16 17:57:28 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Forum ate my post,



Next time try hitting back on your browser, mine (Safari) remembers what I wrote before ccp's forum crapware 'we re-invent the wheel over and over again but make it square', ate it.
Ari Laveran
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#749 - 2014-05-16 18:07:11 UTC
Had an idea for a tooltip that I at least would find incredibly useful. let us see drone hp by hovering over the individual drones while they are in the drone bay section of the control panel.
Takeshi Kumamato
Blaze Orange Expeditions
#750 - 2014-05-16 18:29:21 UTC
Thanks for all the work done so far on tooltips, but a couple problems still remain.

1. Longer system names render using the list tooltips useless for navigation.

http://i.imgur.com/DdOrsZt.png

2. Using the list tooltip for targeting items doesn't update the icons as you target them, so you don't know whether a target is being targeted or not until you refresh the tooltip.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#751 - 2014-05-16 18:33:11 UTC
Lisa Gentilette wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Forum ate my post,



Next time try hitting back on your browser, mine (Safari) remembers what I wrote before ccp's forum crapware 'we re-invent the wheel over and over again but make it square', ate it.


I tried, but it ate my post because it said I had html in it (I orignally had angular brackets for the alliance name), it didnt have it when I pressed back
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#752 - 2014-05-16 18:39:52 UTC
Saw this posted in chat, it comically and quite accurately conveys how many are viewing this.


☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#753 - 2014-05-16 19:27:24 UTC
Arec Bardwin wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
we are especially focused on figuring out the best possible version of the in-space list.
Spotted the biggest flaw right there. In-space lists are awful design. What was wrong with the old system? Never heard any complaints about it.


Okay, here are some complaints: it only displayed a limited number of brackets so if the one you want to select wasn't in there you were out of luck and it disappeared too easily when trying to select something from the list. The new system is at least for me a great improvement.
Kaddan
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#754 - 2014-05-16 20:10:37 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Thanks for the constructive feedback guys. It's not being ignored, and people have been working hard on addressing your concerns as you can see with today's patch.

Please keep the feedback constructive(as many of you have of course), tell us what is bothering you so we can get a good idea of what your problem is and can hopefully address it :)

Help us to help you... or something like that P




Ok let me explain a problem in the most simple way I can.. Lets say im at war and im at the jita undock... a war target undocks and amongst the cluster of ships as I hover my mouse towards the hostile I get like 20 bars appear above all the ships.

If even one of those ship docks or warps from that cluster of bars they all disappear. and you have to re- mouse overthe cluster to find your target in amongst the neutrals.. you try scrolling up 20 bars to get to your war target in jita.. its quite a challenge.

you broke eve when you added these bars above ships when you click on them. they are diving people mad.

please add a turn off button or put it back the way it was.. at least before when you had a cluster the docked and warped off ships data was still in the scroll of cluter and didn't reset thus making it easy to target your hostile.

I hope this was simple enough explanation for you.

If it aint broke don't fix it... stop destroying our game please.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#755 - 2014-05-16 20:11:47 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I just wanted to let you know that we are working hard to process the feedback and make changes to improve your experience as fast as we can.

Bullshit.
The fact that people from CCP keep saying this in every post is proof positive that it isn't true.

You want to improve my experience? Get rid of this ****. I'm not ******* kidding, and neither is anybody else that has said so.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#756 - 2014-05-16 20:12:35 UTC
GET
RID
OF
IT


I can not make this any clearer.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#757 - 2014-05-16 20:14:04 UTC
And **** your constructive criticism. We should not have to put in any effort to tell YOU how to fix something that WE DON'T WANT, PERIOD.

GET RID OF IT.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#758 - 2014-05-16 20:15:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Deacon Abox
Ok, who in the dev department thinks it's a great thing to have so many things cluttering the screen. Immersion my ass. Space is supposed to be big and dark, right?

Instead every frigging jump or undock I'm bombarded with green and red diamonds in space whether I want the damn things or not. Give us an off button for that **** and the stupid radar band wave of tron graphics that proceeds around my screen.

As for the new tooltips, they are worse than the old stacked icons. Why? Well because now there is a ******* huge opaque window that blocks out a lot of space where I might want to see spacial relationships of stuff that is in that vicinity. or actually target something now stuck behind the opaque window.

Seriously, make these things modifiable AN ON/OFF BUTTON for all the new stuff that some of us don't want because it gets in the way of our immersion. Yeah I said it. Immersion is not served by tron waves and green diamonds in the sky and huge opaque boxes with often not needed information.

edit - and btw please have someone address the problems brought to your attention in this thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4586938#post4586938

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#759 - 2014-05-16 20:19:54 UTC
Phoehnix wrote:
Awesome work on the tooltips! :)
As some people have said, you might want to add an option of disabling them (even though i wouldn't use this myself).
You could also add an option for 'extended' tooltips (see starcraft 2), which contains a longer descriptive text, in addition to what's already shown, like for example "Increases Shield / Armor / Hull resistances when activated", and then showing the bonuses, on a damage control.

Please add tooltips for the ESC menu next :)

I would check it again but there are some new ones in the ESC menu. I think.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Davina Sienar
The Misinterpretation of Silence
#760 - 2014-05-16 20:23:57 UTC
Okay you wanted constructive Feedback - then so shall it be... [Wall of Text] (TT=ToolTipp)


First : patch today made some stuff better, but still not know why I need a box in space instead of text over background
like it was.. what was wrong with it ?
and I noticed that the delay before I get that tooltip when hoovering over name in overview is very long.
this information is vital to a lot of us
imagine a fight vs. 5 cruisers and fc calls blackbird first target... the Icon info just tells you a blank [Cruiser] wich is useless
and that hoovering over the names in colum is just too slow atm.

so if those tooltip in boxes are for better readability... sorry but not best idea to have a black box with white lines and white text on a dark background with white lines and text http://i.imgur.com/OukCJgT.jpg might be a design question but still not very good, the old way of displaying it like in this kinda remake http://i.imgur.com/aK6O3jx.jpg with just text on background AND outside the overview was much better imho (and quicker) (and again the question why changed it at all ?)

Btw: post-patch showing names..... http://i.imgur.com/YpoAe7C.jpg
well... no comment

the stargate icon tells me its a stargate and the name colum tells me the name ^^ okay then again: The old version was just to have a text on background saying: Stargate xxName and was totaly ok... so again: why ?


There are some good new or remade tooltips about your modules and the shield / grid stuff, and yes since font is bigger some stuff is better. but. the overall design is poor. :

a) http://i.imgur.com/K4W6hqz.jpg better to read but totaly overlaps on other information, like mormaly at this point are those icons / info about beeing scrammed etc.. nice idea - bad desig / scripting

b) and c) same problem , nice info wrong placing http://i.imgur.com/MOLjSu4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bLdaUM5.jpg

d) http://i.imgur.com/nDwEWVr.jpg okay but imho to big too much and wrong place

e) http://i.imgur.com/RU9PuYv.jpg still wrong place, but u noticed something ? compared to abc this tooltipp on module is already slightly transparent... why not all ?

Solution: The space where all off those TTBoxes bout own ship and modules need to go ->>http://i.imgur.com/dsxqtLo.jpg into the free space ABOVE the modules Shocked

And the TTBoxes bout enemy ship readouts on shield/armor/hull go where ? Exactly UNDER the Targets http://i.imgur.com/7EAHMOu.jpg



And now the the other Stuff:

http://i.imgur.com/cOI2GgK.jpg a TT on skill... thought thats what the InfoButton is for ?
DoubleTrouble ; Either get rid of TT or the InfoButtons

Eve for Dummies: http://i.imgur.com/5oSeoDi.jpg
having TT on Icons in Neocom is totaly fine, needed and good but the explanation of what a Market is .. hey What? if you are able to play EvE then I'm totaly sure you know what the meaning of the word Market is and donotneed a TTBox telling You

This is the kind of downgrading people complain about. It has nothing to do with NPE.
NPE and Everybodys (Noob or not) need is that TT that pops up telling this Icon is the Shortcut to Market. Fullstop.
The Wallet Intel was there before and is OK
((just asking: no one found a good explanation for Calculator ? CoolLolRollPirate ))
If those extended TT are for NPE then divide the TT into 2 flavors: normal and extended
normal just shows basic info / extended gives you the full load - problem solved

Good TT http://i.imgur.com/y1Sh4FD.jpg

Bad TT http://i.imgur.com/Y2l83xi.jpg

Get it ?

For me Useless http://i.imgur.com/0QMeyK8.jpg
Why ?

1) The BigIcon is that of LiqOz and it is also Labeled that way underneath it
2) The Amount of 700 .. well is also there
3) The Value is (thanx to UnifiedInventory ^^) also there [not going to start a discussion about how useless cause of natural misscalc by the tool here, but if I need the Real Price I just R-Click -> view market details..]

the only extra Info is the Est. price for unit of it ..... well yeah \o/
Yes I know if I have more then 1 Item in cargo the window will add price for all Items and then the TT on each will tell me the (mostly wrong) value of that 1 Item but yeah just check market...and I said -> for me useless just to remind P


ahrgh just had a very nice TTBox bombing my screen... http://i.imgur.com/T0KuK3X.jpg ffs thats what the INFOBUTTON is for !!

and then people ask why we want TTBoxes in Space off ??

All about Explorations has already been said, didnt test it now pastpatch


SO. All of this was made in about 15min. I'm damn sure u have a QA Branch at CCP.
and again its just 1 Quetion: WHY ?

Why doin some of that Stuff at all ?
Why no one checked it ?
Why not listen to Feedback from TestServer ?
Why is QA not doin the Job or is doin it without even playing the Game ?

Thats it so far


http://i.imgur.com/ho46q8x.jpg