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Dev Blog: Tiptoe Through the Tooltips

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Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#681 - 2014-05-16 12:51:04 UTC
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
Hello everyone,

A patch was just deployed which should address a number of issues raised in this thread. For details please read here:

http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-rubicon-1.4

You can expect future updates which continue to tweak and fix the tooltips based on your feedback.

the overvue is a bit better, space brackets are a bit better
However, there's a distinct absence of another slider here.

I'll say it again, i appreciate the work done , but its too pervasive and intrusive (i'm not going to touch on the other things).

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Eurynome Mangeiri
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#682 - 2014-05-16 12:53:07 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Longdrinks wrote:
the in space list box being a bit transperant is better but it still covers a large area and i cant click on things behind it like ships or doubleclicking in space to manual pilot. The old version had a list too but there it was totally transperant and i had to click on the icon of a item to interact with it, so there was a lot less space being taken up. I understand that you made this box solid and black to help players looking at things towards the sun, but i would still like to make that choice myself by controlling the transperancy.


This. Must. Happen.

This is one of my biggest complaints about the new system. The docked, fitting, and module tooltips are livable. They don't prevent you from actually playing the game.

This one does. Big time. Most of the in space ones do.

exactly, only the inspace ones (understand celestial / ships etc..) and overview are problematic imao, the other ones don't bother me at all, since they don't disrupt anything, so as far as i'm concerned, i don't care whether they stay, evolve or go.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#683 - 2014-05-16 12:55:15 UTC
Eurynome Mangeiri wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Longdrinks wrote:
the in space list box being a bit transperant is better but it still covers a large area and i cant click on things behind it like ships or doubleclicking in space to manual pilot. The old version had a list too but there it was totally transperant and i had to click on the icon of a item to interact with it, so there was a lot less space being taken up. I understand that you made this box solid and black to help players looking at things towards the sun, but i would still like to make that choice myself by controlling the transperancy.


This. Must. Happen.

This is one of my biggest complaints about the new system. The docked, fitting, and module tooltips are livable. They don't prevent you from actually playing the game.

This one does. Big time. Most of the in space ones do.

exactly, only the inspace ones (understand celestial / ships etc..) and overview are problematic imao, the other ones don't bother me at all, since they don't disrupt anything, so as far as i'm concerned, i don't care whether they stay, evolve or go.


Bingo. They basically can't effect any real gameplay.

But the in space ones, and some of the overview ones (do I really need to know that the orbit button is the orbit button?) are either unnecessary, clunky, or opaque.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#684 - 2014-05-16 12:58:41 UTC
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
Hello everyone,

A patch was just deployed which should address a number of issues raised in this thread. For details please read here:

http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-rubicon-1.4

You can expect future updates which continue to tweak and fix the tooltips based on your feedback.


where is the OFF switch???
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#685 - 2014-05-16 13:18:25 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP karkur
Thanks for the constructive feedback guys. It's not being ignored, and people have been working hard on addressing your concerns as you can see with today's patch.

Please keep the feedback constructive(as many of you have of course), tell us what is bothering you so we can get a good idea of what your problem is and can hopefully address it :)

Help us to help you... or something like that P

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Darin Vanar
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#686 - 2014-05-16 13:22:22 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Thanks for the constructive feedback guys. It's not being ignored, and people have been working hard on addressing your concerns as you can see with today's patch.

Please keep the feedback constructive(as many of you have of course), tell us what is bothering you so we can get a good idea of what your problem is and can hopefully address it :)


Yay! CCP Karkur!

Sorry, you are my favorite dev.
Penny Ernaga
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#687 - 2014-05-16 13:34:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Penny Ernaga
CCP karkur wrote:
Thanks for the constructive feedback guys. It's not being ignored, and people have been working hard on addressing your concerns as you can see with today's patch.

Please keep the feedback constructive(as many of you have of course), tell us what is bothering you so we can get a good idea of what your problem is and can hopefully address it :)


Hi CCP karkur, first, thanks for the work you guys did put in to ease the pain! I tested a little, and it became noticable better.

As I don`t care for any tooltips other than those in space, I limit my feedback to those:

Having the slight transparency on the popups in space is better than before. More transparency would be better, but anyhow, the two main issues are still there:

If there are too many objects in a cluster, I need to scroll - don`t like it, but could live with that, if it was the only point. (not easily, though, because the "grouped brackets spread out when moused over"-function was fantastic).

The core issue is: I still can not interact with objects behind the popup - I know this is what a popup is like. But it does not help, this is bad in many situations, has been described in this thread many times, I don`t need to repeat, I guess.

If I ask now again: ON/OFF - switch? you will hate me, I know....
Orla- King-Griffin
#688 - 2014-05-16 13:39:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Orla- King-Griffin
CCP karkur wrote:
Thanks for the constructive feedback guys. It's not being ignored, and people have been working hard on addressing your concerns as you can see with today's patch.

Please keep the feedback constructive(as many of you have of course), tell us what is bothering you so we can get a good idea of what your problem is and can hopefully address it :)

iv been skilling this toon up a lot the last day or two and i have found while scrolling through skills this tool tip can become somewhat irritating, as i mentioned in my other post, it almost strobes when you run the mouse up/down.

Ah shite...
Orla- King-Griffin
#689 - 2014-05-16 13:46:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Orla- King-Griffin
Forum derp, much apolagies

Ah shite...
Orla- King-Griffin
#690 - 2014-05-16 13:48:36 UTC
Penny Ernaga wrote:


If I ask now again: ON/OFF - switch? you will hate me, I know....

Personally i want to be able to set the delay between setting the cursor and the tool tip appearing , much in the same way i can do with the radial menu, obviously the redundancy needs sorting but i think if i had a little input into them (like i can with almost every other part of the ui) they wouldn't get nearly as far up my nose. as i said earlier, there's a distinct absence of another slider here.





Rocket man.

Ah shite...
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#691 - 2014-05-16 13:51:15 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Thanks for the constructive feedback guys. It's not being ignored, and people have been working hard on addressing your concerns as you can see with today's patch.

Please keep the feedback constructive(as many of you have of course), tell us what is bothering you so we can get a good idea of what your problem is and can hopefully address it :)

Help us to help you... or something like that P



The ability to turn tooltips off please. Been asked by many people, but seems to be ignored every time. They are a pain in the butt for people who don't need them, I.E. anyone that has been playing for more than a few months.
Eurynome Mangeiri
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#692 - 2014-05-16 13:51:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Eurynome Mangeiri
CCP karkur wrote:
Thanks for the constructive feedback guys. It's not being ignored, and people have been working hard on addressing your concerns as you can see with today's patch.

Please keep the feedback constructive(as many of you have of course), tell us what is bothering you so we can get a good idea of what your problem is and can hopefully address it :)

Help us to help you... or something like that P

Hi CCP Karkur,

just tested the new patch (quiclky)


nice improvements regarding the in-space tooltips (i don't care about the other ones)

however the main issues are still NOT adressed:

1- we are still unable to interact with what is BEHIND the tooltips
2- the transparency is not enought => make it player choosen like most of the "Themes" with a 0 <->255 slider
3- still introducing lag
4- still no option to turn them OFF / adjust the delay (2 days delay should do the trick)

so either introduce a ON/OFF thingy, or rollback and take it back to SISI, this is TQ, what we are doing here is what is to be done on SISI BEFORE being put on TQ.

or please tell us where is now the live server, so we can play elsewhere than the test server.

best regards
Jimmy Prophet
State War Academy
Caldari State
#693 - 2014-05-16 13:57:58 UTC
I still believe the tooltips in space are too intrusive and do not aid gameplay still. Can we not just go back to the fully transparent and yet still able to interact with the actual space around it infomation we had before.

I see the same text and interaction space as we had before still appears as well as so maybe a option to turn off the new tooltips in space rather than a blanket off switch
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#694 - 2014-05-16 14:02:38 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
We do keep an eye on things.

And when there's dev active in a thread, it makes sense to let them deal with things, rather than sticking our oar in? (as long as they are responsive, which Delegate Zero appears to have been.)


You guys unanimously blessed these changes before they went live?

Possible answers are Yes or No.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Sougiro Seta
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#695 - 2014-05-16 14:03:43 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Thanks for the constructive feedback guys. It's not being ignored, and people have been working hard on addressing your concerns as you can see with today's patch.

Please keep the feedback constructive(as many of you have of course), tell us what is bothering you so we can get a good idea of what your problem is and can hopefully address it :)

Help us to help you... or something like that P


You realize this http://i.imgur.com/mik0Mw4.jpg is the worst change to the user interface in 10 years?
Panterata
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#696 - 2014-05-16 14:15:56 UTC
I just read the new patch from today.

I didn't saw any turn on/off button

CCP karkur and dev team are you deaf?
Orla- King-Griffin
#697 - 2014-05-16 14:18:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Orla- King-Griffin
Jayem See wrote:
Some great stuff here but the tooltips need a rapid iteration.

It made me think immediately of the changes that are coming to the audio features.

slider at 0 = tooltips off
slider at 1-99 = everything in between
slider at 100 = tooltips as instant as possible

Could be as coarse as

Neocom
Brackets
Overview
Modules
Menus/Context Items

Pretty much the only way it makes sense to me.

Another plug for this.
Id like to use them in areas of eve i'm unfamiliar.

Ah shite...
Quintessen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#698 - 2014-05-16 14:19:20 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Quintessen wrote:
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Quintessen wrote:

They've already mentioned they want to get rid of the tutorials -- the thing that teaches them in the first hour.

Link, please.


New Player Experience talk @ Fanfest 2014:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbHqFgn4SOw&list=PLldrBIEnJ5hMIXwk_e8-VZb0EldJqXmg_

starting @ about 7:00.

The whole thing is really worth a watch.

I watched all of that presentation live and I’ve just watched the whole thing again. CCP Rise doesn’t say they want to get rid of the tutorials, plural (in fact he quite specifically says they have no intention of touching the career tutorials), but says they want to replace the introductory tutorial with a different form of tutorial which presents information in a more general, more involving manner – primarily by getting rid of all the text boxes. So new players would still learn what a station is, but not as part of an isolated, stand-alone concept as happens at the moment.


Career _agents_ will stay, for now. But as I understood from watching it several times is that because the current tutorials feel like "reading a bunch of license agreements", they realize that the text tutorials are not a good mechanism for training new players.

In this case I'm guessing we got different things from the Fanfest session. My comments are with the understanding that they wish to get rid of the text tutorials.
Iq Cadaen
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#699 - 2014-05-16 14:26:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Iq Cadaen
After having attempted to interact with things in space I would like to add this to my previous statement: I would like to pod whoever implemented this pestilence back to their alpha clone.
I hope this is clear enough.

What you need to do to un-FUBAR this 'feature':
  • Add an on/off option.
  • Add sliders to set the delay between roll over/roll out and the tooltip showing/hiding. (99% of the time the value will be 0 for the latter)
  • Don't show a tooltip of 'Stargate' for hovering over a stargate, that's simply stupid.
  • Don't let me further 'activate' the tooltip by hovering over the tooltip itself, wth... tooltips should ignore mouse cursor interaction with themselves and should NEVER block the mouse from interacting with something underneath it. When I move the mouse it means I want to interact with something else and it sure as chips isn't the damn tooltip graphic.

    • That's just some ****** programming, really, someone should be very ashamed of themselves...
    Eurynome Mangeiri
    Pator Tech School
    Minmatar Republic
    #700 - 2014-05-16 14:30:28 UTC
    so obviously, no update to expect before tuesday....i forsee an interesting weekend in eve.....