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Tackling the problem of null-sec ratting bots.

First post
Author
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#41 - 2014-05-15 20:04:09 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

That's what isk you make using the most popular ratting ship the ishtar.

Max you will ever make from anoms is 90 mil/hr

High sec level 4 missions not only matches that but 100+ mil/hr isnt too hard to do. That's before we get into incursions.

Run anoms with the bling ships used in high sec, profit. You try to back this argument up every time by comparing apples & oranges. 'We use a cheap T2 Cruiser that doesn't make as much as a 10 billion isk battleship, so something is wrong'.

Also incursions support no more than 80 people with 100 mil/hr (Assuming 23/day like one can rat, and we all know ratting bots do exist, heck, Bots were capable of handling the old probe interface, let alone the new one, they certainly can rat). if you want to take a higher benchmark citing perfect TCRC walls & perfect pirate fleets all with officer bling that number of people supported drops to about 40. Across ALL OF EVE! Including those Null sec incursions that get run to clear cyno jam effects. So, lets stop pretending Incursions are actually significant when talking about income.
IDGAD
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2014-05-15 20:59:38 UTC
Nullsec bots are actually very rare. I've done highsec ganking in the SAME three systems for a long time, and have caught over two dozen botting raven navy issues and marauders. Mostly it's raven navies on under skilled toons that are botting, most likely Chinese bots that farm and skill up their characters only to sell them when they are maxed for PvE.

The real botting problem is in highsec, not nullsec.
Snakebyte Jack
AcT Legion
#43 - 2014-05-15 23:03:00 UTC
IDGAD wrote:
Nullsec bots are actually very rare. I've done highsec ganking in the SAME three systems for a long time, and have caught over two dozen botting raven navy issues and marauders. Mostly it's raven navies on under skilled toons that are botting, most likely Chinese bots that farm and skill up their characters only to sell them when they are maxed for PvE.

The real botting problem is in highsec, not nullsec.



Tell that to all the AFK Ishtars in Deklein.

I think what your ganking in highsec is new players who are too scared to even speak in local when you start shooting their underskilled ravens.
ZAKURELL0 LINDA
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#44 - 2014-05-16 01:41:55 UTC
Snakebyte Jack wrote:
IDGAD wrote:
Nullsec bots are actually very rare. I've done highsec ganking in the SAME three systems for a long time, and have caught over two dozen botting raven navy issues and marauders. Mostly it's raven navies on under skilled toons that are botting, most likely Chinese bots that farm and skill up their characters only to sell them when they are maxed for PvE.

The real botting problem is in highsec, not nullsec.



Tell that to all the AFK Ishtars in Deklein.

I think what your ganking in highsec is new players who are too scared to even speak in local when you start shooting their underskilled ravens.

afk =/= bots
and both afk and bot problem is much much more serious in HS then in null

RIP Iron Lady

Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#45 - 2014-05-16 06:35:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
ZAKURELL0 LINDA wrote:
Snakebyte Jack wrote:
IDGAD wrote:
Nullsec bots are actually very rare. I've done highsec ganking in the SAME three systems for a long time, and have caught over two dozen botting raven navy issues and marauders. Mostly it's raven navies on under skilled toons that are botting, most likely Chinese bots that farm and skill up their characters only to sell them when they are maxed for PvE.

The real botting problem is in highsec, not nullsec.



Tell that to all the AFK Ishtars in Deklein.

I think what your ganking in highsec is new players who are too scared to even speak in local when you start shooting their underskilled ravens.

afk =/= bots
and both afk and bot problem is much much more serious in HS then in null


The afktar is quite a thing. and goons are fairly unrepentent about using it, however in standard goon fashion, the longer the essential problem is not fixed, the more they'll do it, and the more they'll tell CCP they are doing it to draw attention to it. its not -necessary- to bot in nullsec to rat afk or alt tabbed into a fleet at the moment.

Unfortunately CCP has utterly bolloxed drone aggro. I did a maze the other day that had the 1 minute full stage drone aggro timer in operation. After losing a total of 11 drones, (2 flights of lights, each 1 shot when shooting the 20+ swarms of elite frigates), I had to give up and shoot every single spaceship and not kite anything because even leaving the battleships to kill the structure, they would turn on the drones force me to bey the whole flight because they'd just turn on the next drone and that was enough to let the structure start repping again. In those conditions the maze takes 120 minutes to complete in the drone proteus and 50 minutes to complete in a tengu.

That doesn't solve the afktar at all, all it does is annoy the absolute hell out of at-keyboard-pilots.

I've never seen an anomoly roll the 1 minute timer, so the only places (the deds) in nullsec that has the absurd over the top afk defence doesn't actually have any afk pilots.

I also believe that in their last fiddle with drone aggro, theyve made the timer roll ignore projected effects from the droneboat, as I used to use a web to manage this problem, and it no longer works. ie CCP goes to extraordinary lengths to stop me at-keyboarding a ded comfortably, but does nothing sensible about the afktar. I don't get why the web has to stopped from working, every time I shoot a webbed target, I have to reset the damn web, it is very close to definitionally unafk and I certainly can't count on afk drones to not shoot a webbed target on me and they could simply make aggressive drones prioritise projected effect targets to turn them off if they wanted a great AFK test.
Josef Djugashvilis
#46 - 2014-05-16 07:07:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Abrazzar wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Security presentation showed that most botting occurs in highsec.

In absolute numbers or in percentage per population?


Good question.

All botting is bad, but it has always seemed to me that as most players are in hi-sec then in absolute numbers, most botting in likely to be in hi-sec as well.

This is not a signature.

Josef Djugashvilis
#47 - 2014-05-16 07:09:57 UTC
Andski wrote:
Audrey UntzUntz wrote:
Most caught botting*

It could still be the case, or it could be that null-sec botters are better at their craft, not sure.


if you observe more of a thing in area A than in area B, that usually means there is more of that thing in area A


It is also the case that if you spend more time looking for something in A than you do in B then you are more likely to find it in A.

This is not a signature.

Dave Stark
#48 - 2014-05-16 07:11:06 UTC
the real issue with 'afk' gameplay is that to remove it, you basically have to make the game ****** and sucky for everyone. eg the hilariously ******** "minigame" idea for miners, and such. ruining a whole activity for everyone just to spite a few people doing something that requires less input than the way you choose to do something... just going to end up with everyone being unhappy.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#49 - 2014-05-16 07:17:03 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Once again, a waste of electrons.

The cartels will not allow CCP to go after null sec bots.


Remember the facts show highsec bots the most.


The ones that get caught, yes.
Josef Djugashvilis
#50 - 2014-05-16 07:19:01 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
the real issue with 'afk' gameplay is that to remove it, you basically have to make the game ****** and sucky for everyone. eg the hilariously ******** "minigame" idea for miners, and such. ruining a whole activity for everyone just to spite a few people doing something that requires less input than the way you choose to do something... just going to end up with everyone being unhappy.


I have never seen afk as a problem.

So what if someone is afk?

If I am in the middle of a mission waiting to jump into the next room and I walk away from my computer for a minute to answer the phone or the door, would that be classed as afk?

Botting on the other hand, is bad for the game.

This is not a signature.

Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2014-05-16 07:25:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Benny Ohu
Dave Stark wrote:
the real issue with 'afk' gameplay is that to remove it, you basically have to make the game ****** and sucky for everyone. eg the hilariously ******** "minigame" idea for miners, and such. ruining a whole activity for everyone just to spite a few people doing something that requires less input than the way you choose to do something... just going to end up with everyone being unhappy.

ehh. more like changing legitimate gameplay to try and combat botting is a terrible way to go about it 'cos it'd usually adversely affect legitimate users

i think that there's a problem with afk gameplay, in that a game that you don't play is a boring game. there's room for improving gameplay so that it induces people to play at the keyboard (and have fun doing it), but it's a bad idea to try and force people to stay at the keyboard and endure poor, boring gameplay.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2014-05-16 07:41:34 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Feast on their drops and crew

Hunger for fresh flesh

Shocked

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2014-05-16 07:46:09 UTC
hot
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#54 - 2014-05-16 07:52:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Andski wrote:
Audrey UntzUntz wrote:
Most caught botting*

It could still be the case, or it could be that null-sec botters are better at their craft, not sure.


if you observe more of a thing in area A than in area B, that usually means there is more of that thing in area A


It is also the case that if you spend more time looking for something in A than you do in B then you are more likely to find it in A.


so you think that CCP's security team actually logs into the game and flies around looking for bots

interesting

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Dave Stark
#55 - 2014-05-16 08:30:04 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
I have never seen afk as a problem.

nor have i, personally.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#56 - 2014-05-16 08:45:04 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

That's what isk you make using the most popular ratting ship the ishtar.

Max you will ever make from anoms is 90 mil/hr

High sec level 4 missions not only matches that but 100+ mil/hr isnt too hard to do. That's before we get into incursions.

Run anoms with the bling ships used in high sec, profit. You try to back this argument up every time by comparing apples & oranges. 'We use a cheap T2 Cruiser that doesn't make as much as a 10 billion isk battleship, so something is wrong'.

Also incursions support no more than 80 people with 100 mil/hr (Assuming 23/day like one can rat, and we all know ratting bots do exist, heck, Bots were capable of handling the old probe interface, let alone the new one, they certainly can rat). if you want to take a higher benchmark citing perfect TCRC walls & perfect pirate fleets all with officer bling that number of people supported drops to about 40. Across ALL OF EVE! Including those Null sec incursions that get run to clear cyno jam effects. So, lets stop pretending Incursions are actually significant when talking about income.


90 mil/hr is the most you will get out of anoms with a bling boat. High sec missions beats that, hence why when we tell GSF pilots how to make isk for cap ships most of the advice is to take advantage of high sec.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#57 - 2014-05-16 08:58:44 UTC
Jaun Pacht-Feng wrote:
Combatting Nullsec Ratting bots would go against Alliance leaderships RMT quotas each month.

I'd suggest getting into a Nullsec Bloc, and moving up the ranks to leadership level...as Alliance leaders/lackys are the only ones allowed to Bot in their space under a alt botting corp so their main Alliance get's left alone by a new Dev.

Then you collect as much evidence as you possibly can, then you go public about it, posting it anywhere in the EVE-O forums would get a swift lock...then deleted thread, with a account wide ban for you.


i don't think i want whatever you're smoking

tell us more about these things that you are apparently so well-informed of

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Jered Hakaaros
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2014-05-16 11:51:21 UTC
I agree with most comments here. Im doing a lot of frequent trips through Fountain, Querious, Delve, Period Basis and the rest of the west. What you see are

- afk ratters
- multiboxing bling ships and
- ratting caps

All of which are perfectly fine game mechanics, for the last two you even have to invest a shitload of ISK beforehand. Mostly they are there only at odd hours, which is a perfectly good place and time to make ISK in quiet null systems. Never have I seen anything that looks remotely like bot ratting.

Sure, you can argue if you write them in local, they dont answer. But that doesnt make them bots. Answering someone in local, no matter what you write, means giving the other person precious intel. And lets not forget, there are also many solo players who just dont talk, like, ever.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#59 - 2014-05-16 13:13:44 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
General Nusense wrote:



This "proof" is a load of ****. If you are only making 69 mil isk per hour ratting anoms in nullsec, you either 1) suck or 2) dont know how to rat. Please have someone with "skills" and knows how to "iskperhour" do it. Then go to Highsec and run LVL 4 missions and compare the two. Your "proof" will be a joke, like everyone knows it is.


That's what isk you make using the most popular ratting ship the ishtar.

Max you will ever make from anoms is 90 mil/hr

High sec level 4 missions not only matches that but 100+ mil/hr isnt too hard to do. That's before we get into incursions.


Ugggh here we go again with the fabricated numbers which we know have to be true because this is in fact the internet and I AM A FRENCH MODEL

BONJOUR
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#60 - 2014-05-16 13:16:54 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
General Nusense wrote:



This "proof" is a load of ****. If you are only making 69 mil isk per hour ratting anoms in nullsec, you either 1) suck or 2) dont know how to rat. Please have someone with "skills" and knows how to "iskperhour" do it. Then go to Highsec and run LVL 4 missions and compare the two. Your "proof" will be a joke, like everyone knows it is.


That's what isk you make using the most popular ratting ship the ishtar.

Max you will ever make from anoms is 90 mil/hr

High sec level 4 missions not only matches that but 100+ mil/hr isnt too hard to do. That's before we get into incursions.


Ugggh here we go again with the fabricated numbers which we know have to be true because this is in fact the internet and I AM A FRENCH MODEL

BONJOUR


Bonjour Medam!