Player Features and Ideas Discussion

what ur calling noob hate actually applies to corps filled with older players as well. U could call it carebear hate, but really its common sense. Why is someone who knows so little about the game, in particular PvP in a PvP game, starting corps and exposing his members? Im not recognising a noob corps right to exist war dec free. Who joins a game of Civilization, builds a nation entirely based on economy, and then rages when his opponents attack him? Only someone who completely missed the point.

Fine, the NPC-like corp that gets its own name and logo might be ideal for groups of friends. It doesnt allow them to do anything they cant do now, and the only thing it prevents PvP wise is war decs. They are still vulnerable to ALL other forms of PvP. Perhaps later they can upgrade their corp to full-status, irreversibly of course.

But a corp in the sense we have now has benefits, and those benefits come with risk. Doesnt matter if ur a noob, doesnt matter if its a grief dec just for easy kills. When u start that corp u tell the rest of new eden ur ready for war decs of any kind, same goes for anyone who joins such a corp.



POCO's and POS's are not the only assets of a corp either. Every miner that sells to the corp is an asset, every mission runner that pays taxes is an asset, every hauler that moves things for the corp is an asset. Every player in that corp is an asset. So deccing corps that have no structure assets is not inherently evil and ruining the game experience. There is no mechanical way to distinguish decs that are noob stomping to the extent of being detrimental to the player experience from ones that play a part in the sand box. (And if ur honest with urself, they all play a part in the sandbox.)

Dnt get me wrong, i want to see this game grow too, but war decs alone do not ruin this game for new players. Idiot CEO's and ppl unwilling to HTFU and adapt are at least as responsible. And how many new players join this game looking for something that just isn't EVE?.

It's a sandbox. I don't need a purpose or a reason to do anything. Just having the desire to kick down your sandcastle is sufficient.

And if a "noob corp" is founded on the principle of refusing to defend yourself, it doesn't deserve to exist in the first place.

High sec is different than low sec and null sec which are also different from each other.. and that's the way it should be. Play style should be different in each area... the danger in high sec is nearly as great as anywhere in space. The only reason you can't loose as much in high sec is because you are disallowed from flying the more expensive ships. Stop nerfing high sec value - and restore it to a commensurate reward for it's risk. Remove the barriers for flying some of the bigger ships in high sec.. what are you afraid of? that someone is going to use a dreadnought to suicide gank a pos? Toughen player structures.. there is no reason to make anything that big out of papier-mâché. yes, I know why you made them weaker.. you were trying to reduce the size of a fleet needed to attack them.. but lets be realistic here...larger conflict is not only possible.. it's more fun. Create different content in null sec with regard to basic activates; yes they have merxiot mining and ABC's - lets add other things to that. Stop taking the basics away from High Sec. not all the 80% of player base in high sec are null sec alts.. this is a false notion put forth to try to further demonize high sec.. it's not true. no matter what you do to high sec you will not increase movement from high sec to null sec.. you'll just make the minority in null sec richer. Wardeccing is a high sec unique mechanic.. it deserves to be robust and interesting.. it's not there as a method of chasing people into deep space - it needs to serve the attacker and the defender.

At any rate, stop thinking of high sec as null sec lite - it is and should be a completely different kind of place with it's own unique rewards. Separate but equal in the validity of play.

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Raise war dec costs to 100m per alliance member please so we can gank with impunity.

Firstly, not all newbies need this. Only those for whom the game, its environment and mechanics are unsuitable for, which I admit consists of most human beings, will be helped by this. You are proposing that groups with no fixed and anchored assets deserve peace and immunity from decs. Your premise is that decs are only meaningful when there are poses and pocos to shoot.

Everyone should be shot. Groups that bear a symbol and a name should be exposed to attack. I admit this makes it impossible for most human beings to form groups. But this is ideal. Most humans do not thrive in EVE for the same reason that they do not thrive in warzones. There are many corporations and communities capable of defending and nuturing their young, their weak and their incompetent players in spite of the brutality of the game. And there are a great many more that utterly fail at this. What we do not want is a change of the environment or for the game mechanics to protect groups and new players for us.

Most of the 70% of pvp players are also incapable of living in pvp zones the way we live lin and defend Deklein. They either buy plex for their isk or have highsec alts. Just pull up a few maps and you will be able to see the difference in income made by line members in null sec space in different regions. It is logical to have an interest in denying every possible avenue of income to every possible enemy.

If the cost of declaring any war was 500m/week base... why would most people even bother declaring wars? Just buy some tornadoes/a catalyst swarm and gank the completely unsuspecting target instead. Which would ultimately give defenders/targets fewer counters.

The deccers would be out less money than if they'd decced and the target won't have had the notification warning him, so he won't have had the opportunity to decide whether to risk his shiny spaceboat.



Plsno

I have been thinking about this some more.
What if we had something vaguely similar to the upgrades people get in sov space for high sec corps.
Done constellation wide instead of system wide.
So if your corp kills x bounty worth of rats /day in a constellation for a week you get a license to anchor an upgrade on a POS in that constellation that gives a minor boost to resists and shield /armour booster amount in that constellation. The more you kill the higher you can upgrade this device (at an isk cost for the upgrade and a monthly rental fee to the corp). If you stop ratting then the level allowed declines gradually and when you dip below the next threshold you lose that level of upgrade and 25% of the isk cost of upgrade is divided between anyone you are at war with.
A similar licence for mining upgrade that increases yield (minor) and remote rep amount (minor) and similar rewards for a war dec closing your activity down.
A similar license for pvpers that would increase dps (minor) and lower heat damage (minor) based on isk destroyed in constellation allowing defenders to band together and camp the war deccers into their own home bases and gain a reward from lowering their upgrades potency.
An economic cost for failing to defend or disbanding, a bonus for well run corps on their own turf, economic rewards for degrading opponents infrastructure and a team goal for various corp types to aim for promoting group play.
This could also be used in null/ low sec but the rewards for lowering the bonus level being divided between corps based on isk destroyed of the defenders in that constellation over the previous 7 days..
Installing a POS in an enemy home system and then running all their anoms could then give you a tank bonus, isk for degrading their stuff and weaken their tanks fighting at home. Hiding from afk cloakies all day would have new and fun implications.
Much better than my previous structure shooting varient.
Maybe you need a formula to take into account membership size so it is hard but not impossible for a 10 man corp and not too easy for a 2000 man corp.
I for one look forward to a goon mining op in someones form up system to get better RR before they take it. Esp with the new dps boosted skiffs/procurers. Hilarious for all sorts of reasons and lots of new gameplay options

Being on the receiving end of a ward dec in which the 600 man alliance deccing my personal alliance I would like to state my thoughts:

One should have a way to play Eve alone. I've been into industry and probably the only way to do industry alone AND have profit is in a POS. I also like fiddling with POSes and with Industry.

Now a 600 man alliance comes to the area, wardecs a bunch of the local corps (don't know how many). I manage to get everything out of the POS, so there's 0 profit to be made. And they just go ahead and kill the POS.

Now what do I do, I either go to a safe place (null sec) and am FORCED to socialize. Or quit EVE.

Do note that I have 0 chance to defend myself from the 10-20 man gangs running around without being FORCED to socialize. And some may say "hire MERCS". Hire MERCS to defend a 200 M POS? The point being? I rather have them waste their time taking it out.

Also note that since i'm an experienced player in EVE, i know that when you get wardecced and got no chance to fight back what you should do? Well dock obviously, the more kills they get from you the happier they'll be (ok i'm not very good on this last part).

So a guy wanting to play alone is FORCED to stay docked and NOT play EVE. I'd say most folk retire and stop playing eve. Nobody wants to be FORCED into anything. The way big alliances go around war deccing defenseless corps does nothing but FORCE people into not playing -> not having fun -> quitting.

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Solution: The price for the War Dec needs to depend on the difference in size between the deccing part and the decced part. A big corp/alliance deccing a small one should have the base cost increase by the factor of difference in size: 500 man corp declaring war on a 50 man corp sees the prince increase 10 fold or 500 Million, 5000 on 5 100 fold or 50 billion.

I believe the price should only increase if the size is bigger.

Then 2 more rules would need to be added:
1) a character joining a deccing corporation would need to pay the base declaration cost 50 M (so there are no abuses of 1 man corp declaring alliance and 500 joining afterwards).

2) If a corporation has declared war on you in the past, the size difference no longer applies (to prevent a small corp from decing a big corp on and off without consequences).


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I believe that with this system you could even tweek the values so that deccing an equal sized corp could cost much less or even become free.