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Cypherous

Liberty Rogues

Aprilon Dynasty

Likes received: 323

#281 - 2014-05-15 10:15:20 UTC

beakerax wrote:

I can understand the complaint here. In prior skill changes, CCP has given a massive SP advantage to older players (say, those with Command Ships trained) at the expense of both existing new players (without Battlecruisers V or Command Ships) and hypothetical future new players. This change only gives old players (SDO V + CDO V) an advantage over the unborn future new players, not the existing new-ish players (SDO V + CDO less than V). That is clearly inconsistent and unfair.

The obvious solution is to reward everyone who trained both skills to V with Combat Drone Operation - Elite trade items. Or possibly a Civilian Hobgoblin.

Well i can fly command ships while missing a bunch of the required gang skills so i'm happy enough with that :P

Velicitia

XS Tech

Likes received: 2,802

#282 - 2014-05-15 10:19:50 UTC

Kate Blaze wrote:

Velicitia wrote:

Xasnevian wrote:

Let's make everything a little more tangible.

People who have both SDO 5 and CDO 5 (most unfavourable situation):
After - Before = +256.000 SP

People who have only SDO 5 (and CDO 0) (most favourable situation):
After - Before = +768.000 SP

sweet, I'm only getting a quarter million SP, my clone costs won't go up! Take that CDO 0 suckers. Big smile

Are you ******** or just trolling?

have ~600k SP before needing a new clone. Don't want to pay for a new one just because CCP is splitting skills up again.

That ~6m we got for Battlecruiser -> [Racial] Battlecruiser (and dessies) sucked on more than one "cheap clone" character (not that 900k isn't "cheap" ... but going from ~450k to ~900k is still no fun).

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Gully Alex Foyle

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 4,497

#283 - 2014-05-15 10:24:43 UTC

Xasnevian wrote:

If I give you one cookie and the person next to you two cookies, don't you wonder why I'm not giving you another cookie as well?

Some people do. Others just take the free cookie, say 'thank you' and go on minding their own business. Some might even give their cookie to the other person, because who cares? it's just a free cookie.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Scipio Artelius

Weaponised Vegemite

Flying Dangerous

Likes received: 47,807

#284 - 2014-05-15 10:36:20 UTC | Edited by: Scipio Artelius

Gully Alex Foyle wrote:

Xasnevian wrote:

If I give you one cookie and the person next to you two cookies, don't you wonder why I'm not giving you another cookie as well?

Come on, this is EvE.

There's only one acceptable outcome.

The guy that received 2 cookies has to take the cookie from the other guy too.

Since he has 2 cookies and the other guy 1, a cookie doubling scam would be the way to go.

Gully Alex Foyle

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 4,497

#285 - 2014-05-15 10:46:14 UTC

Scipio Artelius wrote:

Gully Alex Foyle wrote:

Xasnevian wrote:

If I give you one cookie and the person next to you two cookies, don't you wonder why I'm not giving you another cookie as well?

Come on, this is EvE.

There's only one acceptable outcome.

The guy that received 2 cookies has to take the cookie from the other guy too.

In EVE, I would rather blow up his spaceship while he's busy eating his 3 little cookies.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Jonah Gravenstein

Machiavellian Space Bastards

Likes received: 28,489

#286 - 2014-05-15 10:49:25 UTC | Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein

Gully Alex Foyle wrote:

Scipio Artelius wrote:

Gully Alex Foyle wrote:

Xasnevian wrote:

If I give you one cookie and the person next to you two cookies, don't you wonder why I'm not giving you another cookie as well?

Come on, this is EvE.

There's only one acceptable outcome.

The guy that received 2 cookies has to take the cookie from the other guy too.

In EVE, I would rather blow up his spaceship while he's busy eating his 3 little cookies.

Steal his cookies, then blow up his spaceship.

Amateurs Roll

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack


Scipio Artelius Weaponised Vegemite Flying Dangerous Likes received: 47,807	#287 - 2014-05-15 10:49:55 UTC 1 Gully Alex Foyle wrote: In EVE, I would rather blow up his spaceship while he's busy eating his 3 little cookies. Cookie doublers don't undock.

Perkone Caldari State 2,138
Riyria Twinpeaks Perkone Caldari State Likes received: 2,138	#288 - 2014-05-15 10:51:12 UTC 1 Nobody likes my idea with the paused training time. But it'd be fair! Isn't this here all about fairness

Gully Alex Foyle

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 4,497

#289 - 2014-05-15 10:54:13 UTC

Scipio Artelius wrote:

Gully Alex Foyle wrote:

In EVE, I would rather blow up his spaceship while he's busy eating his 3 little cookies.

Cookie doublers don't undock.

You could blog about cookie stealing being akin to torture.

You'd be surprised how many people would take you seriously.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!


Scipio Artelius Weaponised Vegemite Flying Dangerous Likes received: 47,807	#290 - 2014-05-15 10:56:30 UTC 1 Gully Alex Foyle wrote: You could blog about cookie stealing being akin to torture. You'd be surprised how many people would take you seriously. Those cookie stealers, they're all cookie monsters.

Tippia

Sunshine and Lollipops

Likes received: 27,526

#291 - 2014-05-15 10:59:39 UTC | Edited by: Tippia

Xasnevian wrote:

I cannot comprehend why people don't see anything wrong with this.

Because they don't suffer from the a large enough sense of entitlement to think that, having been given a lot of SP, they should be given even more, or that they lose anything but not gaining as much as the next guy (since they understand that a gain is not a loss, pretty much by definition).

Quote:

Please stop suggesting I should somehow be "happy" with this.

Why would you be sad about it? You're not losing anything; you're getting further ahead of people than you were before; your training time is worth more than before; you are being given free time that others have to slog through.

Walter Hart White wrote:

If someone decides to train CDO to V because of dev blog they lost the days they trained it. That is the loss.

…except that they don't lose anything. This change makes you end up with more SP trained than the time you put in — and that's what days trained are: SP. It is impossible to lose anything from the change. You can only ever get more out than you put in.

At most, you can foolishly reduce your speculation returns by not paying attention to what the changes are doing, but that's still not a loss — it's just a reduction in returns, and it's all your own fault.

Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:

Nobody likes my idea with the paused training time. Sad

But it'd be fair! Isn't this here all about fairness Question

Yeah, weird isn't it? It's almost as if it was not about fairness at all but about something more akin to getting more than you trained for, and then be “compensated” for getting more by getting even more… but surely, people aren't that silly?

Scipio Artelius wrote:

Those cookie stealers, they're all cookie monsters.

Funny how it's better in Cookie Clicker to let the cookie monsters stay alive for as long as possible…
I don't quite get what the downside is supposed to be — is it some balance act between immediate liquidity and future profit?

Xasnevian

sadfadsfadsadsf

Likes received: 55

#292 - 2014-05-15 11:39:23 UTC

Tippia wrote:

I'm not saying I'm entitled to anything. I'm saying that this transition is odd and different from what CCP normally does.

Tippia wrote:

Why would you be sad about it? You're not losing anything; you're getting further ahead of people than you were before.

It's almost sad how you're not getting this. It's even sadder that I can't stop replying to you.

I'm loosing money in the form of more expensive medical clones. I'm loosing an SP advantage compared to people with only SDO 5. And while we're at it, my drones have exactly the same abilities before as after the patch, whereas the drones of people with only SDO 5 all of a sudden inflict 25% more damage!

Gully Alex Foyle

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 4,497

#293 - 2014-05-15 11:52:08 UTC

Xasnevian wrote:

I'm loosing money in the form of more expensive medical clones. I'm loosing an SP advantage compared to people with only SDO 5. And while we're at it, my drones have exactly the same abilities before as after the patch, whereas the drones of people with only SDO 5 all of a sudden inflict 25% more damage!

So sad

Do you want a cookie?

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Tippia

Sunshine and Lollipops

Likes received: 27,526

#294 - 2014-05-15 12:06:46 UTC | Edited by: Tippia

Xasnevian wrote:

I'm not saying I'm entitled to anything. I'm saying that this transition is odd and different from what CCP normally does.

Not particularly, no. It's entirely in line with the “if you could use it before” line of transition they have been using for a long while now. It is pretty much exactly what you'd expect, which only makes the “woe is me, I trained CDO because of the blog” so bizarre.

Quote:

It's almost sad how you're not getting this.

It's sad (not even “almost”) how you think this in any way constitutes an argument or that you even believe what you say. Just because I see your position as nonsensical does not mean I don't get it. You can keep repeating this fallacy as much as you like, but it will never cease being a fallacy and thus never become anything that even remotely resembles an intelligent point.

Quote:

I'm loosing money in the form of more expensive medical clones. I'm loosing an SP advantage compared to people with only SDO 5.

The first has nothing to do with the skill transition; the second is counteracted by your increased SP advantage compared to everyone with a lower level than what you have. Your third point is just a repetition of your second, which only demonstrates how much you have to stretch to even provide a fraction of a point.

And since you've already disqualified your partial second point by saying that we can't compare against others, the simple fact remains that you lose nothing. Everything you could conceivably see as a “loss” is counterbalanced by a gain.

Silent Vale LinkNet 7,384
Ramona McCandless Silent Vale LinkNet Likes received: 7,384	#295 - 2014-05-15 12:17:07 UTC 1 Xasnevian wrote: loosing an SP advantage You cannot "loose" (sic) something that does not exist "Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway "A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Mandy Bonebright

Science and Trade Institute

Caldari State

Likes received: 27

#296 - 2014-05-15 12:56:03 UTC

Rule of thumb: When reading a DevBlog, read the op then pour through the pages after and look for all Dev posts to see if any changes to the concept have been made. If you can't spend 5 minutes to click through the pages following the op then you are lazy enough not to deserve the insight of updated information. I agree any changes to the plan should be added to the op, but you cannot expect people to do what you will not do yourself.

Dave Stark

Likes received: 7,950

#297 - 2014-05-15 12:57:46 UTC

Mandy Bonebright wrote:

especially when it's as easy as clicking the blue tags to take you to the next dev post.

Mandy Bonebright

Science and Trade Institute

Caldari State

Likes received: 27

#298 - 2014-05-15 13:03:47 UTC

Dave Stark wrote:

Mandy Bonebright wrote:

especially when it's as easy as clicking the blue tags to take you to the next dev post.

Using your method of clicking on the Dev tag on the portrait took less than 3 minutes to get to post #630 to see the actual spelling out of who gets what on the skill split. (Times may change depending reading comprehension levels.)


Gully Alex Foyle The Scope Gallente Federation Likes received: 4,497	#299 - 2014-05-15 13:11:50 UTC Dave Stark wrote: especially when it's as easy as clicking the blue tags to take you to the next dev post. Thanks, I didn't know you could do this! Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Ranger Corp Vae. Victis. 6,345
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp Vae. Victis. Likes received: 6,345	#300 - 2014-05-15 15:40:08 UTC 1 Ahh, I was wondering when the inevitable yet tragically stupid demand for reimbursement thread would rear it's ugly head. EVE forums, you do not disappoint. View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.