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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships

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Doggy Dogwoofwoof
New Eden Corporation 98713347
Brotherhood of Spacers
#2601 - 2014-05-13 16:55:04 UTC
Priestess Lin wrote:
Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:
Lin, At optimal Sentrys have near perfect application. BUT based of your play-style from earlier, I take it you are flying with heavy drones and torps. Which is the Only fit that is being nerfed. ANd as i pointed out in that post, It has more DPS with cruise missiles than it currently does with torps. Also, if your jammed then your drones are unagroed, Meaning you are still dealing 50% of your damage.


I can use sentries when if battleships should get out of range of my torps.

I don't know what you mean about the drones being unaggroed. I press F on a frigate once and they kill everything small on their own. The medium drones do a great job on the cruisers. I only have to worry about locking the battleships, which are much easier than smaller ships to reacquire after being jammed. When drones are solely responsible for destroying all enemy frigates and cruisers, the +50 bonus damage and HP helps enormously.

It is really nice that the drones usually finish their job first, then I can take out the salvage drones (something I won't have enough drone bay space for with the proposed changes) while I mop up the remaining Battleships with missiles. Easy.

People are getting hung up on the Snake as a sniper and that is not the only way it is played. There are battleships that tank better and battleships that snipe better.

The Snakes role was versatility. No reason for CCP to change that. It has a role and there is no real overlap. Give it an extra low slot to bring its DPS up a bit and it will be perfectly fine for what it does.

It is BETTER AT BRAWLING to. Berserkers can hit frigates, and New cruise missiles deal more dps than the current torps.
Priestess Lin
Darkfall Corp
#2602 - 2014-05-13 16:56:59 UTC
Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:
Priestess Lin wrote:
Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:
Lin, At optimal Sentrys have near perfect application. BUT based of your play-style from earlier, I take it you are flying with heavy drones and torps. Which is the Only fit that is being nerfed. ANd as i pointed out in that post, It has more DPS with cruise missiles than it currently does with torps. Also, if your jammed then your drones are unagroed, Meaning you are still dealing 50% of your damage.


I can use sentries when if battleships should get out of range of my torps.

I don't know what you mean about the drones being unaggroed. I press F on a frigate once and they kill everything small on their own. The medium drones do a great job on the cruisers. I only have to worry about locking the battleships, which are much easier than smaller ships to reacquire after being jammed. When drones are solely responsible for destroying all enemy frigates and cruisers, the +50 bonus damage and HP helps enormously.

It is really nice that the drones usually finish their job first, then I can take out the salvage drones (something I won't have enough drone bay space for with the proposed changes) while I mop up the remaining Battleships with missiles. Easy.

People are getting hung up on the Snake as a sniper and that is not the only way it is played. There are battleships that tank better and battleships that snipe better.

The Snakes role was versatility. No reason for CCP to change that. It has a role and there is no real overlap. Give it an extra low slot to bring its DPS up a bit and it will be perfectly fine for what it does.

It is BETTER AT BRAWLING to. Berserkers can hit frigates, and New cruise missiles deal more dps than the current torps.


Cmon man. Just because Heavy drones are capable of hitting frigates, doesn't mean its effective to do so. You can use light drones on battleships too if you want.

When discussing weaknesses of heavy drones vs fast frigates: baltec1- " A thanatos with a flight of geckos killed a bomber gang while AFK. So yea, they track frigates just fine." https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4678049#post4678049
Doggy Dogwoofwoof
New Eden Corporation 98713347
Brotherhood of Spacers
#2603 - 2014-05-13 17:00:35 UTC
Priestess Lin wrote:
Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:
Priestess Lin wrote:
Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:
Lin, At optimal Sentrys have near perfect application. BUT based of your play-style from earlier, I take it you are flying with heavy drones and torps. Which is the Only fit that is being nerfed. ANd as i pointed out in that post, It has more DPS with cruise missiles than it currently does with torps. Also, if your jammed then your drones are unagroed, Meaning you are still dealing 50% of your damage.


I can use sentries when if battleships should get out of range of my torps.

I don't know what you mean about the drones being unaggroed. I press F on a frigate once and they kill everything small on their own. The medium drones do a great job on the cruisers. I only have to worry about locking the battleships, which are much easier than smaller ships to reacquire after being jammed. When drones are solely responsible for destroying all enemy frigates and cruisers, the +50 bonus damage and HP helps enormously.

It is really nice that the drones usually finish their job first, then I can take out the salvage drones (something I won't have enough drone bay space for with the proposed changes) while I mop up the remaining Battleships with missiles. Easy.

People are getting hung up on the Snake as a sniper and that is not the only way it is played. There are battleships that tank better and battleships that snipe better.

The Snakes role was versatility. No reason for CCP to change that. It has a role and there is no real overlap. Give it an extra low slot to bring its DPS up a bit and it will be perfectly fine for what it does.

It is BETTER AT BRAWLING to. Berserkers can hit frigates, and New cruise missiles deal more dps than the current torps.


Cmon man. Just because Heavy drones are capable of hitting frigates, doesn't mean its effective to do so. You can use light drones on battleships too if you want.

Lin, Berserkers Or a Gecko will blap frigs just as fast if not faster than Light drones. They will do the same to cruisers faster than mediums do. Your playstyle will have to change some, But it become better at that play style.
Priestess Lin
Darkfall Corp
#2604 - 2014-05-13 17:17:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Priestess Lin
Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:
Priestess Lin wrote:
Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:
Priestess Lin wrote:
Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:
Lin, At optimal Sentrys have near perfect application. BUT based of your play-style from earlier, I take it you are flying with heavy drones and torps. Which is the Only fit that is being nerfed. ANd as i pointed out in that post, It has more DPS with cruise missiles than it currently does with torps. Also, if your jammed then your drones are unagroed, Meaning you are still dealing 50% of your damage.


I can use sentries when if battleships should get out of range of my torps.

I don't know what you mean about the drones being unaggroed. I press F on a frigate once and they kill everything small on their own. The medium drones do a great job on the cruisers. I only have to worry about locking the battleships, which are much easier than smaller ships to reacquire after being jammed. When drones are solely responsible for destroying all enemy frigates and cruisers, the +50 bonus damage and HP helps enormously.

It is really nice that the drones usually finish their job first, then I can take out the salvage drones (something I won't have enough drone bay space for with the proposed changes) while I mop up the remaining Battleships with missiles. Easy.

People are getting hung up on the Snake as a sniper and that is not the only way it is played. There are battleships that tank better and battleships that snipe better.

The Snakes role was versatility. No reason for CCP to change that. It has a role and there is no real overlap. Give it an extra low slot to bring its DPS up a bit and it will be perfectly fine for what it does.

It is BETTER AT BRAWLING to. Berserkers can hit frigates, and New cruise missiles deal more dps than the current torps.


Cmon man. Just because Heavy drones are capable of hitting frigates, doesn't mean its effective to do so. You can use light drones on battleships too if you want.

Lin, Berserkers Or a Gecko will blap frigs just as fast if not faster than Light drones. They will do the same to cruisers faster than mediums do. Your playstyle will have to change some, But it become better at that play style.


Going to have to disagree out of personal experience. You probably aren't taking drone travel time and future drone changes into account either.

When discussing weaknesses of heavy drones vs fast frigates: baltec1- " A thanatos with a flight of geckos killed a bomber gang while AFK. So yea, they track frigates just fine." https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4678049#post4678049
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2605 - 2014-05-13 17:27:22 UTC
Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:

Lin, Berserkers Or a Gecko will blap frigs just as fast if not faster than Light drones. They will do the same to cruisers faster than mediums do. Your playstyle will have to change some, But it become better at that play style.


If you're talking about PvE, even if I chop 30% off the time to kill of the current Gecko to take into account the Kronos changes, the Gecko's time to kill is better than any drone you want to name.

It blaps frigates, it bends cruisers over the sawhorse, and it still puts out ludicrous output against battleships.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2606 - 2014-05-14 02:56:54 UTC
Just noting that on the current Rattlesnake I run 2 gecko and 3 Warriors up close.

The current Gecko murders most frigates but struggles to keep up with spider drones and elite frigates missing a lot. However the three 50% bonus warriors (4.5 un-bonused equivalent DPS) kill them easy enough. With the post patch Rattlesnake deploying a flight of 5 un-bonused Warriors should still make quick work of them ... the 50% damage loss is not a big issue issue.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2607 - 2014-05-14 03:08:09 UTC
Worms should really stay in the can...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Doggy Dogwoofwoof
New Eden Corporation 98713347
Brotherhood of Spacers
#2608 - 2014-05-14 03:21:50 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Worms should really stay in the can...

But thats not as fun as letting them outLol
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2609 - 2014-05-14 04:27:21 UTC
Priestess Lin wrote:
I understand you guys don't have lives and all. But it is not cool to make people like your girlfriend or people that come to the door wait 15 minutes or whatever because you have to finish something you are doing in a video game.


I guess you don't need much time to finish with the GF if your 180ish hps tank last long enough in a potential full room aggro...
KaDa en Bauldry
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2610 - 2014-05-14 19:12:12 UTC
I can't remember the last time I had problems hitting cruisers with Sentries.
And hitting them well, not just glancing hits, mind you.

Haven't seen a need for medium drones since I've stopped flying a Thorax.

Don't forget about ship insurance before undocking. Don't forget about copy-paste saving before posting.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2611 - 2014-05-14 19:24:49 UTC
Still no love for the Nestor...?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Topher Basquette Dusch-shur
Montana Freedom Fighters
#2612 - 2014-05-14 20:20:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Topher Basquette Dusch-shur
@CCP

Please. Anyone. Post SOMETHING. The amount of time since a Dev post has left two types of posters. The ones who don't mind rephrasing a post every other page, and the ones that are here to fill up pages for ISD to delete. I keep reading hoping for some new information.

Seriously, show up to give us the bird or something.

Edit: For those of you who don't have "the bird", it's an offensive gesture.
stoicfaux
#2613 - 2014-05-14 21:23:26 UTC
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tYl-QUgm_JqySf3e7o7CkbfYYcM3rQcE6RexpXVtkS0/edit#gid=485950326

With 2 Drone Nav IIs:
* Infiltrator II - 5,654.4
* Vespa II - 4,646.4
* Hammerhead II - 4,130.2
* Valkyrie II - 6,146.1

* Praetor II - 3,392.6
* Wasp II - 2,765.7
* Ogre II - 2,458.4
* Berserker II - 3,687.7
* Gecko - 3,728.6


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Doggy Dogwoofwoof
New Eden Corporation 98713347
Brotherhood of Spacers
#2614 - 2014-05-14 21:56:08 UTC
SO lin, This is what YOU posted that started the heavy vs mediums/lights debate. Show me where you are talking about PVP in it



Priestess Lin wrote:
Let me give you people a scenario of a way the Snake is played other than a sniper, a role done better by other ships.

Any mission.

The fit is Torpedos with 1 target painter, giving you greater dps against Battleships than cruise missiles. With this fit I have a 30000 hp shield tank with ~187hp per sec shield regen.

You arrive in the pocket and you lock onto one frigate, one cruiser and the rest battleships and fly towards the next warp gate or mission objective.

First you target your torpedos and target painter onto the Battleship and destroy them one by one. This is will be very easy to do since there are few battleships and will not have to worry about switching targets often, nor waiting for long lock times. With he +50% velocity bonus, javelin torpedoes can hit out to about 50km with implants and no rigs.

Next launch your light drones, select the frigate you locked and press F. Every frigate will pop at incredible speed. Put your light drones away once the frigates are all gone and then use medium drones and do the same thing, press F with the cruiser you have locked. With +50% bonus drone damage and hp, frigates and cruiser die to light and medium drones very fast.

All one need do is lock onto and destroy battleships with torpedos and the drones do the rest, all while flying towards the next objective.

With the new iteration of the Rattlesnake, this style would not be nearly as viable, having lost +50% missile velocity bonus and +50% drone damage and hp.

It is rare for a ship to have range on their torpedoes and I don't see why the snake has to lose that. The few people who do fly it would be much better served by more high/mid/low slots instead of these drastic changes.

The fact remains that heavy drones still suck, even with the changes. Their damage application is slow, meaning lower overall dps, and they can't be used in many situations. Other ships do sniping better.

Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
#2615 - 2014-05-14 22:21:32 UTC
Just wanted to point out that the nightmare on SISI is missing a low slot that it should have gotten as per OP

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
Ravasta Helugo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2616 - 2014-05-14 22:31:54 UTC
Crazy KSK wrote:
Just wanted to point out that the nightmare on SISI is missing a low slot that it should have gotten as per OP

Oooh nice catch.

Speaking of SiSi, how is the new Snake holding up guys?
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2617 - 2014-05-14 23:10:54 UTC
Rather than the yes it will no it won't arguments, lets look at it on sisi if it is up.
I suspect that heavies will be suboptimal, notice I do not say incapable, at dealing with smaller targets.
Lets try It with T1 missiles and T2 because not all Players have access to T2.
and see if the ship is actually better, or worse in various peoples hands.
Because not everybody has all V skills in mission ships.

Where does one post impressions after SiSi testing? Here?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Rexxorr
Perkone
Caldari State
#2618 - 2014-05-14 23:16:12 UTC
As a mission runner I wanted to get a feel for the new rattlesnake changes and share my current impressions.

I took the rattlesnake out for a test drive on sisi today. The fitting changes are live for the rattlesnake but the drone skill changes are not live yet nor are the traits updated which describe what the ship does.

I fit the rattlesnake with drones being the primary dps and missiles as secondary dps. I tried out light missiles up to cruise missile to see how they perform mission wise. Because the drone is primary dps the drone needs to live, so I rigged for drone durability.


1. The Gecko drone is tough . I shot more than one trigger in damsel and it still lived :-)
2. The Gecko drone can kill spider drones quick enough. I watched the Gecko miss a spider drone 3 times then one shot it.
3. I found faction cruise missiles actually quite useful, from battleship down to frigs.
4. Heavy and light missiles work, but I like the range of cruise and cruise dps is prob the most helpful imo.
5. Rattlesnake has quirks with drone control but better just one drone than trying to control five drones.
6. A drone left to engage at will,of course always without fail shoots the trigger first. lol
7. The rattlesnake is now imo, a medium close range battleship and has the tank to survive in close quarters.
8. Cpu is very tight (used cpu mods for fitting), lots of faction mods will be needed to get around cpu limts.


Thats my impression atm. The Rattlesnake appears to be so far, decent at mission running.
Looking forward to the drone skill updates in order to get a more solid feel for the new rattlesnake.
Priestess Lin
Darkfall Corp
#2619 - 2014-05-14 23:23:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Priestess Lin
Rexxorr wrote:
. I watched the Gecko miss a spider drone 3 times then one shot it.



4 shots for a Gecko to kill a spider drone. Lol

I rest my case. Cool

When discussing weaknesses of heavy drones vs fast frigates: baltec1- " A thanatos with a flight of geckos killed a bomber gang while AFK. So yea, they track frigates just fine." https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4678049#post4678049
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2620 - 2014-05-14 23:35:59 UTC
Priestess Lin wrote:
Rexxorr wrote:
. I watched the Gecko miss a spider drone 3 times then one shot it.



4 shots for a Gecko to kill a spider drone. Lol

I rest my case. Cool


Sentries one shot it, Heavies will kill it in short order, unbonused lights will also kill them, and then we have the missiles.

The only thing shown here is that your claim to fly a rattle (or even use drones or missiles) is questionable.