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Jove and Sleeper connections

Author
Verdis deMosays
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-05-05 15:35:00 UTC
I have been thinking a lot about the back story of the sleepers and the Jove lately since, due to having a newborn in the house, I can't get out and violence spaceships much. So here are some thoughts I had about those races and their stories. Apologies in advance for the wall of text.

We know that the sleepers are the masters of virtual reality from many chronicles and much teasing from CCP Drop bear, but the how has eluded us for a long while. But reading the Inferno Chronicle, and the Dust 514 intro (sorry, my link-fu is weak) I think I see how they accomplished it a bit more clearly.
We know the implant they used was able to transfer consciousness without killing the host, and I think that is the interface point for their VR system. We also know they developed the Inferno drug to enhance neural connectivity. My theory is that the Sleepers at some point felt that they had hit a wall in their VR research, where the human brain had run out of room, much like the crappy computers we all played on as kids. So they used the combination of implant and inferno to expand their minds into the virtual world.
The Inferno treatment would allow the mind to exponentially expand its connections, while the implant gave the space of a computer system to expand into. So once the biological brain was over clocked and asleep in its stasis tube the mind could continue to grow in a virtual world that was unlimited, except by its storage ability. And if you linked all the facilities where this happened via quantum entanglement communications, the society wouldn't be lost. Then if you built drones to maintain and keep constructing new facilities to expand into, you would never be limited in what you could accomplish. Looks a lot like w-space, doesn't it?

I am sure the Jove knew about this, and wanted the technology for their own use, which brings me to the next point.

We know that the Jove have been tinkering with their DNA since new eden was still using swords. They did so much that they made a side effect called Jove Disease where the mind falls prey to depression and commits suicide via apathy. This has weakened them a great deal, and slowed any expansionist hopes for their once great empire.

My theory is that Jove Disease is the overload of their genetic structure, where their neural synapses overwork to the point that they burn our, slowly disabling the brain. That would explain why some cases are fast and some are slow in progression, as some cases would start with critical synapses, whereas others would start with secondary ones.

My theory is that they knew about the sleeper technology and wanted it, particularly Inferno, to counteract the effects of Jove disease. Since we know Inferno builds new pathways and connections it might be able to be tamed and counter the degradations of Jove Disease. They knew, however, that they wouldn't be able to field the manpower to gain Inferno tech, and still have enough Jovians left to make it worthwhile.

So they gave us capsule tech. They knew we would use it, and once we were strong enough, they engineered Jamyl Sarum's use of an isogen-5 weapon to open w-space to the capsuleers and allow us to bring these substances out into new eden. Fair trade for capsule tech, wouldn't you say?

While my links are lacking, i think the concept is sound, and would love the thoughts of the other lore enthusiasts in eve.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-05-05 18:06:57 UTC  |  Edited by: LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Maybe.

But you are missing a critical link - rogue drone AI.

My link-fu is even weaker then yours, but somewhere in rogue drone chronicles it implies connection to sleeper and jove as well - and wormholes were opened by rogue drones for different purposes.

basically recommend you read all the drone chronicles and articles. maybe you will get additional insight.

EDIT - Awakened Infomorph. Supposedly a sleeper turned capsuleer and directing rogue drones and Sansha in some manner. And Sansha have outposts in Jove space....

Basically its all a mess. Inferno drug connection is interesting, but it only takes a few marauders to raid a sleeper facility - I highly doubt Jove could not procure inferno compound themselves.

No, what Jove want is to regress back to human bodies from their dna-engineered nightmare state. And Sleepers want to regress back to human state as well from their AI Matrix. And Sansha have the human-cyborg research going, and AI drones have god what knows going on....
Verdis deMosays
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-05-05 19:32:03 UTC
Not sure how rogue drones work into everything, but I do know some wiki info from CCP says that when Empress Jamyl set off her Isogen-5 weapon at seyllin that the other isogen-5 stockpiles went off as well. It was mentioned to have been stockpiled by rogue drones, which means that either its isotope functions as a nonlocal metaparticle or it was detonated by the drones at the same time to open wormholes.

Either way not good, but I tend to think the latter. But consider that the rogue drones were created by CreoDron, which is a corporation mentioned in the conversation with the Jove ambassador (presumably) from the wormhole chronicle, as well as the first corporation to enter a wormhole in new eden. Given that the Jove have only really given anything to the Caldari and the Gallente it makes me think there is a connection. Possibly jovian influence on CreoDron to create an attempt to reverse engineer their own sleeper drones?

One thing is for sure though: if rogue drones are being controlled by sleepers, they wouldn't want to open wormholes, and if my theory is true, the Jove would, so the actions of the rogue drones align more in a jovian direction, supporting my theory.

As for Sansha I think you would have to ask Kuovekei himself...
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#4 - 2014-05-05 19:40:11 UTC
ib4 Falcon:

"The who?"

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#5 - 2014-05-05 20:50:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Jove in Jove space are the ones that stayed in New Eden. Talocans were the ones that built strange structures in New Eden and went to the wormholes. Some Jove went to the wormholes after Talocans. Talocans vanished, probably moved away from the wormholes, one way or another, or merged there with Jove, maybe both, we have now Sleepers there and they are dreaming in their own state of consciousness.
Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
#6 - 2014-05-05 21:39:06 UTC
I do wonder if there's anyone at CCP who remembers how it's supposed to all fit together...
Verdis deMosays
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-05-05 22:01:20 UTC
Yeah, where's that ol #+%&@;# Drop bear when you need him? :)
VTyx Soul
Station Window Lickers
#8 - 2014-05-05 22:28:43 UTC
Sleepers and the Jove arrived in the heaven constellation together. They are the same race. The third race who arrived also and wasn't in cryo however is behind the amarr Jove war. You should read the novels. The connection is all in there. Who the sleepers are the Jove etc etc
Verdis deMosays
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-05-06 01:12:29 UTC
I think the novels will be my next read, maybe after I finish off Edward abbey. The thing that bothers me though is why the Jove word help a lesser race off, since they seem less than altruistic. The Inferno connection seemed like a logical one, and one which hadn't been explored. After all, eve lore isn't something that has a lot of holes in it.
Topher Basquette Dusch-shur
Montana Freedom Fighters
#10 - 2014-05-06 19:26:24 UTC
Seeing a lot of crazyness on the google machine. Would someone here mind telling me what the name of the novels or series of novels dealing with Jove or Sleepers would be called?
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#11 - 2014-05-06 20:21:56 UTC
There are three EVE novels, and Source. The novels are The Empyrean Age, Burning Life, and Templar One. The first and third of these were written by the same fellow, and the response to them varies markedly-- but generally the response is poor. Expect lots of 'heroic single tears' and other tropes. Burning Life is rather sedate, and reads as an empire-by-empire tour of the various factions, and before Source was considered an excellent way to get a feeling for life in New Eden

Templar One, though written by the same fellow as TEA, is a much more palatable book, and does include some lengthy exposition of Jove history. It's basically the grail for what-we-know-about-the-Jove-and-Sleepers.

Also, a useful thing to know: Takhmal = ancient Blood Raiders/Sani Sabik. Talocan = Jove. Yan Jung = ???, possibly absorbed/destroyed by the Jove as they tried to harvest potential sources for a cure for the Jove disease.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#12 - 2014-05-08 12:29:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Makoto Priano wrote:
Talocan = Jove


I think that this things are more complicated. Big smile

The ones left by Jove to perish became the Sleepers. There is some indication that Talocans did not live in wormholes when Sleepers started exploring them. That evidence is in a form that sleepers studied Talocan structures, not evolution of one into another, gap in tech is too wide. They were clearly reverse engineering the Talocan structures. Talocans were ancient, age of their structures is definitely showing, if they would be Jove that became Sleepers, it would also show itself in tech evolution. In contradiction to evolution theory we have both races distinct tech and ruins not only in wormholes but in New Eden, in Caldari space (Talocan) and Minmatar (Sleepers).

Talocans could even be spacefaring ancient race native to New Eden. Their mathematical formulas are what humans did not fully understand to this time. Looks like their brain was capable of functioning in a way alien to us, in more dimensions then we can visualize and work comfortably. Talocans showed how keen they were by journeying to the wormholes, something what Sleepers were able to do by knowing it from their ruins and artifacts left in a form of monoliths, something what Jove were capable of provoking also fairly recently in not really an elegant way (Seylin Incident).

Jove did not care about the people they left to perish, abandoned Jove became Sleepers and they were completely alienated by Jove at that point, but Jove knew about and also were afraid of Talocans, as they knew that this unknown race was more powerful than them in ancient times and that they made it into the wormholes somehow. Sleepers on the other hand were desperate, they needed to go after Talocans in a hope of stealing their mysteries and in a hope of cure. Talocans probably journeyed by that time far away beyond wormholes in their ships, journeyed to other places in the universe. They were migrant culture, and left what they did not care about, their ruins and ships that were not technically capable of the next jurney, beyond the New Eden and wormholes. Sleepers were not able to Journey after Talocans past wormholes, they stayed in a strange sleep in structures guarded by drones.

Jove, after Seylin Incident and opening of wormholes know something about Talocans what Sleepers have not been able to discover about them, but Jove are still afraid of Talocans.

Jove will send us new gate tech.

Do you know why? There is hope for Jove after all, but they are not fair with us, never were, Amarr empire gave them a lesson they will remember for eternity, in cold Jove eyes there is no mercy, there is only cold mind calculating his chance of survival...

Amarr prophecy was right, but it was not a prophecy, it was warning send to them by other beings, and they were not Jove...

A strange visit if you ask me....
CETA Elitist
The Prometheus Society
#13 - 2014-05-14 20:41:26 UTC  |  Edited by: CETA Elitist
GRAND BLOODY IDEA:


jovians have expanded their minds in-VR beyond the point where their biological brains can accomodate them, even geneticaly.

stuck in la-la land forever, with the real world becoming so much less colorful and interesting than you remember.

your sheer intelligence makes you crave new knowledge and a deeper understanding of nature. Your technology's inability to let you directly interface with the physical world means you are stuck in an artificial universe, with known limits and boundaries 8O

hence the super-depression.