These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

Encounter Surveillance System - Fix the anomaly...
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#1 - 2014-05-14 07:19:31 UTC
I really liked the concept of the encounter surveillance system when it was added to the game, as it was designed to encourage more PvP interactions and fun raiding action, but because of some unforeseen uses (and the test of the players' minds) it kind of fell short of providing the extra interactions intended in most cases.

I believe a possible fix would be that an encounter surveillance system should be considered as an hostile object if installed inside an anomaly, and should be attacked and destroyed quickly by the red NPCs there, much like they destroy left behind drones.

The trick to hide it in an anomaly is a nice trick found by players, but it defeats the purpose of having players having to defend it. Kuddos to the players that have found this oversight, but it needs to be fixed so that it retains its original purpose and truly generates interactions.

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-05-14 07:24:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Adrie Atticus
Find a way around it?

You might actually have to risk a PvP ship instead of an interceptor to grab the contents of ESS if you really want it.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#3 - 2014-05-14 07:27:01 UTC
What's the salvo damage of the fully-spawned anomaly compared to, say, the EHP of a battleship?

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#4 - 2014-05-14 07:36:23 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Find a way around it?

You might actually have to risk a PvP ship instead of an interceptor to grab the contents of ESS if you really want it.


Raiding with an interceptor means the defenders just need to bring a small defense force.
Raiding with a PvP ship is fine too, of course, but what the point if all your defenses are going to be hit by the NPCs before the player's defenders even show up....

The point here is to commit defending "players" to the raiding threat, whatever the ships the raiders chose to use, and not let all the NPCs do the dirty work for the defending players. They are the ones unwilling to risk PvP ships when they set up the ESS that way...

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#5 - 2014-05-14 07:44:38 UTC
I think the anomaly of the ESS is widely considered the existence of the ESS itself.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-05-14 07:46:11 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
What's the salvo damage of the fully-spawned anomaly compared to, say, the EHP of a battleship?

From what I am told, outside of warping in a capital ship - nothing can survive the entire pocket on you at zero. If you are solo of course. Maybe a small RR gang or something, not sure.
Zetaomega333
High Flyers
#7 - 2014-05-14 08:09:33 UTC
Saisin wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Find a way around it?

You might actually have to risk a PvP ship instead of an interceptor to grab the contents of ESS if you really want it.


Raiding with an interceptor means the defenders just need to bring a small defense force.
Raiding with a PvP ship is fine too, of course, but what the point if all your defenses are going to be hit by the NPCs before the player's defenders even show up....

The point here is to commit defending "players" to the raiding threat, whatever the ships the raiders chose to use, and not let all the NPCs do the dirty work for the defending players. They are the ones unwilling to risk PvP ships when they set up the ESS that way...


No it doesnt, iv seen ceptor raid fleets run likes bitchs the instant a defence fleet shows up. Your just mad that you cant run around in a ceptor and get free isk.
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#8 - 2014-05-14 08:28:51 UTC
Zetaomega333 wrote:
Saisin wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Find a way around it?

You might actually have to risk a PvP ship instead of an interceptor to grab the contents of ESS if you really want it.


Raiding with an interceptor means the defenders just need to bring a small defense force.
Raiding with a PvP ship is fine too, of course, but what the point if all your defenses are going to be hit by the NPCs before the player's defenders even show up....

The point here is to commit defending "players" to the raiding threat, whatever the ships the raiders chose to use, and not let all the NPCs do the dirty work for the defending players. They are the ones unwilling to risk PvP ships when they set up the ESS that way...


No it doesnt, iv seen ceptor raid fleets run likes bitchs the instant a defence fleet shows up. Your just mad that you cant run around in a ceptor and get free isk.


Having a relevant defense fleet showing up is a sign of players' interaction, even if the choice for the raiding party is to run.
It is the type of game design intended for the ESS...

But I believe your responses are not really about the intended initial design, so for the rest let's agree to disagree...

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project
Cebraio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-05-14 10:48:00 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
What's the salvo damage of the fully-spawned anomaly compared to, say, the EHP of a battleship?

From what I am told, outside of warping in a capital ship - nothing can survive the entire pocket on you at zero. If you are solo of course. Maybe a small RR gang or something, not sure.

A small gang with T3s and logi should easily be able to handle it, but the people stealing from ESS usually look for easy money and don't intend to bring a proper PVP fleet.

Saisin wrote:

Raiding with an interceptor means the defenders just need to bring a small defense force.

Actually, interceptors are very hard to catch these days. If ESS would no longer be possible in anomalies, we would ONLY see interceptors roaming around and trying to steal from them. We already see interceptor gangs or solo ceptors daily, but the anomalies spoil their business plan. Following your idea, we would still not get more PVP, just more annoyance by interceptors who warp off as soon as something is on dscan.
Solecist Project
#10 - 2014-05-14 11:23:45 UTC
Hi! :)

By your logic, fitting a 10mn AB on a rifter means something is broken,
because the description states it's a cruiser class module
and people aren't using it as expected.

People are creative. You want to stop that, for reasons unknown,
as you don't really express them. You talk *around* them,
without covering your actual case.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#11 - 2014-05-14 11:42:31 UTC
I liked/hated it when it was a burglar alarm on WH exits.

They fixed that and now I don't care about them at all.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Commandante Caldari
Best Kept Dunked
#12 - 2014-05-14 15:12:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Commandante Caldari
From what I understand is that you just want an easy and risk-free access to an unprotected ESS to steal stuff without getting scrammed by frigs and ganked by battleships for 3 minutes additionally scrammed inside the bubble. What about rats insta-lock your pod and kill it? Same logic. But it still doesn't happen. Placing the ESS in an anomaly is good because noone can protect it 24/7 and therefore it's a nice challange to steal. Isn't it?
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#13 - 2014-05-14 15:16:38 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
What's the salvo damage of the fully-spawned anomaly compared to, say, the EHP of a battleship?

From what I am told, outside of warping in a capital ship - nothing can survive the entire pocket on you at zero. If you are solo of course. Maybe a small RR gang or something, not sure.


You can tank a fully spawned hidden rally point in any battleship that can tank 500 dps for long enough to get the pay out. Fit an MJD and jump out then warp as soon as you have the tags. Tanked T3 is even easier though no MJD crutch to lean on.

The anom placement trick is a counter to FRIG/small ship raiding. I for one think it's way to easy for small ships to Raid ESSs and many times those small ships are just hot drop baiters to begin with.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#14 - 2014-05-14 16:30:42 UTC
Please allow us to anchor ESS in highsec.





Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#15 - 2014-05-14 17:33:03 UTC
Commandante Caldari wrote:
From what I understand is that you just want an easy and risk-free access to an unprotected ESS to steal stuff without getting scrammed by frigs and ganked by battleships for 3 minutes additionally scrammed inside the bubble. What about rats insta-lock your pod and kill it? Same logic. But it still doesn't happen. Placing the ESS in an anomaly is good because noone can protect it 24/7 and therefore it's a nice challange to steal. Isn't it?


I would totally agree to see access to ESS curved in such a way that interceptors for example can't access it, may be by having a special hacking module required on the ship to access it that would be beyond frig size ships capacity to fit.

My main point that you fail to see is anomaly deployment is simply making NPC doing the defending job for players, and thus the intended initial game design concept for ESS simply fails.

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#16 - 2014-05-14 18:26:15 UTC
Saisin wrote:
Commandante Caldari wrote:
From what I understand is that you just want an easy and risk-free access to an unprotected ESS to steal stuff without getting scrammed by frigs and ganked by battleships for 3 minutes additionally scrammed inside the bubble. What about rats insta-lock your pod and kill it? Same logic. But it still doesn't happen. Placing the ESS in an anomaly is good because noone can protect it 24/7 and therefore it's a nice challange to steal. Isn't it?


I would totally agree to see access to ESS curved in such a way that interceptors for example can't access it, may be by having a special hacking module required on the ship to access it that would be beyond frig size ships capacity to fit.

My main point that you fail to see is anomaly deployment is simply making NPC doing the defending job for players, and thus the intended initial game design concept for ESS simply fails.


The proteus can tank a fully spawned gurista hidden rally point and its got some interesting options for fitting including 100mn ab, which is going to put a heavy requirement for quality play on your ratters kitchen sink defence to actually bring it under control.

The purpose after all of the ESS is not to be an ATM for ships that are too fast to counter, its to provoke encounters between defence gangs and hostile gangs with some chips on the table in interesting space.

Their chips are in the ESS, your chips are what you use to defuse the defence.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#17 - 2014-05-14 19:42:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Marlona Sky wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
What's the salvo damage of the fully-spawned anomaly compared to, say, the EHP of a battleship?

From what I am told, outside of warping in a capital ship - nothing can survive the entire pocket on you at zero. If you are solo of course. Maybe a small RR gang or something, not sure.

There's quite a lot of ships that can tank the anomaly damage long enough to steal it, but they're not uncatchable interceptors, so the people who would see themselves as ESS thieves don't try. There's also a way you can use aggro mechanics to make many, many ships able to take the aggro, but I'm not going to post solutions, except to say they're similar in design to how you would run any very high DPS PVE content in affordable supcaps. Other workarounds operate by using something as small as a T1 frigate to change out the various parts of stealing from an ESS.

A sample raiding-party at the low end might cost you about 20mil ISK and need 3 characters.

Needless to say like everything good in eve, there's a clever solution for the clever solution. It's probably not working as intended, but then so much of Eve doesn't and remains 'balanced' as long as there is effective counter-play.

Without the ability to use anoms in this way, the ESS is rather unbalanced, because an ESS thief has to take almost zero risk to do it. The scram it applies might make it easier to catch a lazy interceptor, but anyone watching DScan has enough time to bail regardless.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-05-14 22:56:17 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Please allow us to anchor ESS in highsec.






They could nerf all high sec bounties by 20% while their at it!

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#19 - 2014-05-14 23:40:37 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:

There's quite a lot of ships that can tank the anomaly damage long enough to steal it, but they're not uncatchable interceptors, so the people who would see themselves as ESS thieves don't try.


I do not believe this is the reason why they do not try.

The ESS is located in a system in the middle of the defenders territory, as such defending fleet have most of the time intel about upcoming raiders numbers and ships, and can pick up the best ships available to respond to the threat. Home turf advantage is already real.

Call to arms can be issued to bring potentially more bodies, even if this is mitigated somewhat by the risk of hot drops.

the raiders have to commit to the ESS without knowing if there is any loot at all, and they have to think of how to pull out, without any jump bridges networks.

Overall, everything in the ESS is already stacked in favor of the defending fleets... and on top of this, raiders also are having to sustain massive fire powers from NPCs for 3 minutes, and be thoroughly weakened when the defense fleet shows up...

No wonder you only see people trying these raids with interceptors only... Again, allowing ESS in anomalies is preventing the ESS to be what they were designed to be.


Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#20 - 2014-05-15 01:07:21 UTC
OK.. so it's one of those threads. Please at least have even a passing experience with the thing you're asking to be changed. It helps prevent your ideas from causing people to slap themselves in the head.

If you think fleets, counter-drops and CTAs are going to happen over a ESS you're a long way off from approaching a sensible discussion on the topic.

The level of reward in raiding an ESS is at the level of personal interest, maybe a very small (2-3) number of people making a run out of it and raiding multiple. The level of defence for an ESS is 2-3 ratters who have a stake in what's inside, re-shipping, which is usually of a value approaching ~15mins ratting.

It's balanced as it is, with micro-skirmishes over not much ISK.

"Fixing" the ability to deploy them in anoms just means you lower the bar to "solo interceptors, all day every day, forever" which is precisely what was happening before a newbee invented the current way of using anoms.

It's a shame CCP hyper-buffed interceptors at the same time as the ESS came out, because without the uncatchable fits running around looting ESSs, there might have been other ships and skirmishes to be had - not unlike the daily fights we had with roaming Cynabals, vagabonds, Tengus etc.
All have been abandoned for interceptors.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

123Next pageLast page