These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Combat Drone Operation Being Effectively Removed from the Game

First post First post
Author
Riyria Twinpeaks
Perkone
Caldari State
#201 - 2014-05-14 13:41:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Riyria Twinpeaks
Xasnevian wrote:
[...]

As I stated before, I think CCP intents players to "speculate" on the information that is in devblogs. If they did not want this, they would simply release a patch without warning.



They post these dev-blogs to inform players about their plans, so they get feedback early, not to have players speculate.
Why would they want the players to speculate when the result can only be a collossally whiney thread as this here?

Sometimes they change what they have planned based on that feedback.
So, if you keep yourself informed by reading devblogs, AND then want to profit from the information you gained, and that's exactly what you wanted to do if you trained CDO just because of the devblog.. Then it's really your own fault for stopping to keep yourself informed.

Edit:
Really, the only people "losing" here are those who are SP-greedy and wanted to profit, acted too fast, and then didn't keep themselves informed.
And even that loss ist just "less gain".
Charlie Firpol
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#202 - 2014-05-14 13:56:41 UTC
People speculate on every patch, on every devblog, on every devpost etc.
Sometimes you sepculate right and win, sometimes you speculate wrong and lose. Deal with it!

The Butcher of Black Rise - eve-radio.com

Alli Ginthur
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#203 - 2014-05-14 14:49:30 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Xasnevian wrote:
Time is lost. Time = SP. Please reimburse SP.
How is it lost when I end up with 33% more than I had?
Why should I be given 50% more SP on top of the 33% I'm already being given?.


Time is lost for someone who has SDO trained to V and any level of CDO, because then, regardless of what your CDO is at, you receive all 3 new skills at V. The time spent training CDO is lost. Whether or not CCP reimburses is their call, but when anyone can train one skill and receive the exact same new skill set as the person who trained two skills, that second skill training becomes redundant and should be looked at for reimbursement.
stoicfaux
#204 - 2014-05-14 15:09:36 UTC
Alli Ginthur wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Xasnevian wrote:
Time is lost. Time = SP. Please reimburse SP.
How is it lost when I end up with 33% more than I had?
Why should I be given 50% more SP on top of the 33% I'm already being given?.


Time is lost for someone who has SDO trained to V and any level of CDO, because then, regardless of what your CDO is at, you receive all 3 new skills at V. The time spent training CDO is lost. Whether or not CCP reimburses is their call, but when anyone can train one skill and receive the exact same new skill set as the person who trained two skills, that second skill training becomes redundant and should be looked at for reimbursement.

The heck with it. CCP should avoid the whole "skill point reimbursement" "problem" and go with their original plan:
* split CDO into LDO and MDO,
* base T2 light/medium drone access on the LDO/MDO skills

Which would mean that some people would lose the ability to fly their T2 light and medium drones because currently SDO is required for T2 light and medium drones. Example:
If I have
* SDO at V, and
* CDO at IV,
then after summer I would have
* SDO V,
* LDO IV,
* MDO IV,
and my T2 light and medium drones would require LDO V and MDO V respectively, which I wouldn't have, thus I would lose my ability to fly T2 light/medium drones. And I would have to grind up LDP and MDO to V to get them back.

Anyone else on board with this? It would stop the crying.




Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#205 - 2014-05-14 15:12:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Alli Ginthur wrote:
Time is lost for someone who has SDO trained to V and any level of CDO, because then, regardless of what your CDO is at, you receive all 3 new skills at V.
In other words, time is gained in the process — in every case more time than you put into it. If you get more out than you put in, it is hardly a loss.

Quote:
when anyone can train one skill and receive the exact same new skill set as the person who trained two skills, that second skill training becomes redundant and should be looked at for reimbursement.
That has never been grounds for reimbursement. Reimbursement happens if you lose something because a change happens that removes that ability or mechanic.

In this change, you lose no abilities — you keep what you had before. You lose no time — you get more SP (=time) than you had before. You loose no mechanics — they are what they've always been.

People are upset because some gain more and some gain less, and that their inattentive speculation yields less of a profit than they had through. Receiving less gain in not even remotely the same thing as a loss, so there is not even remotely any grounds for reimbursement. It's particularly groundless when that lower profit is only ever their own fault for not paying attention.

stoicfaux wrote:
Anyone else on board with this? It would stop the crying.

It would create even more (and actually legitimate) crying, so I'm not on board with it. Lol
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#206 - 2014-05-14 15:38:54 UTC
It was immediately obvious that the proposal as suggested in the first DEV blog would have meant people with just SDO would have lost access to light drones and this is against stated CCP policy.

Sooo ... to anyone with half a brain that proposal was never going to see the light of day.

Maybe people should think for themselves rather than demanding SP compensation for what is basically their own stupidity.
Jean-Paul Hutchinson
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#207 - 2014-05-14 15:51:10 UTC
As it stands on SISI even if you have CDO and SDO to V you still need to train medium drone operation to V for T2 Mediums which is another 10days
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#208 - 2014-05-14 15:55:54 UTC
Removed a personal attack. Keep it on topic and civil please. Thank you.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Alli Ginthur
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#209 - 2014-05-14 16:30:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Alli Ginthur
Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:

Really, the only people "losing" here are those who are SP-greedy and wanted to profit, acted too fast, and then didn't keep themselves informed.
And even that loss ist just "less gain".


I would be willing to bet a lot of the people "losing" are actually people who trained CDO to V to get the full damage/module upgrade benefit, and are upset those who didnt are getting the exact same benefit rolled into the new skills.

Would simply keeping SDO the same and renaming CDO to Scout Drone Specialization be a simpler, less controversial method?
Xasnevian
sadfadsfadsadsf
#210 - 2014-05-14 16:33:06 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Alli Ginthur wrote:
Time is lost for someone who has SDO trained to V and any level of CDO, because then, regardless of what your CDO is at, you receive all 3 new skills at V.
In other words, time is gained in the process — in every case more time than you put into it. If you get more out than you put in, it is hardly a loss.
Tippia, I asked you if you really were not getting this. Obviously, you really don't get this. (or you're trolling in a very bad way)


Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:
They post these dev-blogs to inform players about their plans, so they get feedback early, not to have players speculate. Why would they want the players to speculate when the result can only be a collossally whiney thread as this here?

So, if you keep yourself informed by reading devblogs, AND then want to profit from the information you gained, and that's exactly what you wanted to do if you trained CDO just because of the devblog.. Then it's really your own fault for stopping to keep yourself informed.
As I stated before; CCP Rise usually puts HUGE WARNING SIGNS around this kind of stuff, so that people know that they are speculating. There were no warning signs and the devblog wasn't adjusted after the forum post.

For me personally, this meant that I read the devblog, checked my skills and put CDO 5 in my skill queue. I did not mean to "speculate". I did not mean to "gain an advantage". I did not mean to "exploit". I read it, I was informed and I acted upon said information to not be 'that guy' who doesn't keep up with the news. You can call it "my fault", you can tell me to "HTFU" and Tippia can tell my that I'm "actually gaining SP", but the fact is that I and many other players trained this skill for nothing.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#211 - 2014-05-14 16:36:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Xasnevian wrote:
; CCP Rise usually puts HUGE WARNING SIGNS around this kind of stuff, so that people know that they are speculating. There were no warning signs and the devblog wasn't adjusted after the forum post.


So you are saying that everything realeased in a Dev Blog that has not been noted with a warning sign has appeared in the patch or expansion it was mooted for without change in all cases, quineg?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Dave Stark
#212 - 2014-05-14 16:58:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
my current skills are SDO V, CDO III.
on sisi, i have light drone operation to III, and medium drone operation isn't even injected.

either SISI is ******, or CCP really botched the explanation.

edit, seems sisi is wrong
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#213 - 2014-05-14 17:47:13 UTC
Tippia wrote:
It also means that the notion that somehow time or SP is “wasted” is nonsensical — how is it wasted if I end up with more than I had?

I'm getting less gain, for having trained more.
Seriously.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

stoicfaux
#214 - 2014-05-14 18:07:17 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Tippia wrote:
It also means that the notion that somehow time or SP is “wasted” is nonsensical — how is it wasted if I end up with more than I had?

I'm getting less gain, for having trained more.
Seriously.

But a higher gain requires more risk. Did you take that risk?

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Ayuren Aakiwa
When i Look Up At The Stars I Am Filled With Rage
#215 - 2014-05-14 18:07:28 UTC
For those of us who don't want to read 11 pages of man children whining at each other, should combat drone op 5 be trained or no?
Walter Hart White
Heisenberg Minings
#216 - 2014-05-14 18:08:45 UTC
Ayuren Aakiwa wrote:
For those of us who don't want to read 11 pages of man children whining at each other, should combat drone op 5 be trained or no?

Apparently not.
Dave Stark
#217 - 2014-05-14 18:10:23 UTC
Ayuren Aakiwa wrote:
For those of us who don't want to read 11 pages of man children whining at each other, should combat drone op 5 be trained or no?


do you want 5% drone damage/level for the next 2 and a bit weeks?
stoicfaux
#218 - 2014-05-14 18:12:12 UTC
Ayuren Aakiwa wrote:
For those of us who don't want to read 11 pages of man children whining at each other, should combat drone op 5 be trained or no?

The highest of Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation will be used. Since SDO is a rank 1 skill (versus CDO being a rank 2), you're better off training SDO to V before summer. Check EveMon.


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#219 - 2014-05-14 18:16:58 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
stoicfaux wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Tippia wrote:
It also means that the notion that somehow time or SP is “wasted” is nonsensical — how is it wasted if I end up with more than I had?

I'm getting less gain, for having trained more.
Seriously.

But a higher gain requires more risk. Did you take that risk?


That doesn't apply to skill training.

And I didn't train CDO 5 because of a dev blog. I trained it so I could use T2 drone link amplifiers.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Victor Dathar
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#220 - 2014-05-14 18:19:31 UTC
Yes it does, there is a risk I will train shield comps.

^^^ lol that post is so bad you should get back 2 GBS m8 o7

@grr_goons : Wisdom, Insight, GBS Posts