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Dev Blog: Tiptoe Through the Tooltips

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Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#341 - 2014-05-14 12:41:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Rommiee
Ali Aras wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Hey, here's a quick question.

Precisely what problem was this intended to fix? What, in exact terms, was wrong with the old setup?

Information was hard to discover in-game ("Targeting? 20.0 points? What the ****?") and some displays of information were unhelpful. It was hard to tell what ship class you were fighting if you didn't have all of the name -> class mappings memorized (this, memorably, lead to me killing a blackbird in a catalyst because I thought blackbirds were frigates).

Now some different displays are redundant, but others are much more helpful. The scrolling thing and the big black box issues were acknowledged by CCP DelegateZero earlier in the thread. The existence of tooltips at all-- the module tooltips, the tooltips on the fitting window and station services screen-- will be something that vets will likely adapt to and ignore, just as we ignored the old tooltips.

"This is the worst feature since ______" is unhelpful feedback; "This is interfering with my ability to do ________, __________, and ________ because I'm trying to x and instead y happens" is useful stuff that CCP can use to actually improve the feature (or kill it, as they have with loot scatter!). If you're interested in a better game for yourself, I'd suggest using the latter language, or at least pretending you're talking to a real person standing in front of you when drafting your post.



If you had read the previous posts, you would have all the information you need.

CSM 9 off to a flying start and working to be even more useless than CSM 8. Good job.
Belt Scout
Thread Lockaholics Anonymous
#342 - 2014-05-14 12:45:35 UTC
I like how when I click on a nearby ship, The transparent (for lack of words) version tells me what/who it is. THEN the tooltip blacks out everything and TELLS ME THE SAME EXACT THING.

Yeah sure, this isn't broken. CCP, you NEED to roll back this tool tip problem asap because it's not useful in any way. The old system, even with it's tiny shortfalls, was still 100x better than this current hot mess.

On a side note. I really hope this isn't the kind of thing you're going to release 10 TIMES A YEAR under the new 'patchspansion plan'.

Ugh

They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake.

**This IS my main so STFU.
Arec Bardwin
#343 - 2014-05-14 12:46:07 UTC
TEST SERVER, it's there for a reason Evil
Jasmine Assasin
The Holy Rollers
#344 - 2014-05-14 12:50:58 UTC
Is there any reason the tooltips have to give redundant information? I see a ship, the overview tells me what it is. The tooltips should display pertinent information and not just a rehash of the overview in space. Enough clutter out there already and these tooltips are not exactly discreet.
Rofla Copter
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#345 - 2014-05-14 12:57:59 UTC
Rommiee wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Your UI devs ought to be fired. If this is what they come up with then they're not capable of producing the quality of work you need. It's not "there's room for improvement", it's "you ****** up in so many ways including not allowing players to properly test these changes, pushing poorly tested changes onto the live server, obviously not testing these changes yourself, and being generally pants-on-head ********."

You'd think you'd have learned from the unified inventory fiasco but it's very very clear that you haven't.


They never learn, and keep doing the same thing over and over. Even monkeys learn by their mistakes.


Not if you give them grenades... :)

On topic:
If the tooltips aren't changed, or can be disabled, this effectively is another exploration nerf...
It's bloody impossible to quickly assess which can is which.
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#346 - 2014-05-14 13:05:31 UTC
Haven't read the thread yet, so apologies if any of the below has been mentioned.

I didn't realise that there had been a patch, and noticed some new tooltips and ones that had changed, and some that are now F'ing annoying(the last one is the one that made me go in search of changelog/devblog for UI Changes)

Most annoying tooltips are the ones on the overview they popup too goddamn fast, moving the mouse down the overview looking for something causes every second item to popup a tooltip which is hell distracting.

Trying to select a wreck/items at over a hundred Km in a bunch of wrecks/items, eg selecting a single wreck after an completing an Anom, to warp to MJD to, to drop an MTU in the middle of field is almost impossible.

The Tooltips in space now have a opaque background which blots out anything that could have been seen through the old tooltips is annoying too.

I think the main issue with the change is that the new tooltips are TOO RESPONSIVE and need to have a delay added.
David Gradivus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#347 - 2014-05-14 13:13:02 UTC  |  Edited by: David Gradivus
Saira Minamoto wrote:
Where is the ON / OFF function?


This repeated many times


There is a clear pattern that is happening here: New UI development comes along, players in general dislike, devs make on/off switch or some type of control mechanism, players happy again (for the most part).

The problem here is players have to live with the change until fixes are made; frustrating and honestly pissing alot of people off. Would suggest holding off on changes like the new tooltips (UI) until on/off (adjustment) switch is included with initial release.

Many people here have been playing the games for many years and UI changes like this need more time for development; especially having some time on the test server first.


More thinking by devs (much more in this case), more testing before changes go out by normal players. This also means more people need to leave feedback on test server yes. In this case don't think even was tested first so it makes me question CCP's thinking
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#348 - 2014-05-14 13:32:55 UTC
Haven't logged in to check this out yet. But it looks pretty good from the devblog. Predictive mouse movement should be awesome. Tooltip to see station services is definitely awesome.

I hope that I don't get tooltip bombed though. It could be annoying to try to navigate in space and constantly have to work my way around boxes that are popping up all over the place. But I will reserve judgement until I log in tonight.



http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Ivan Taredi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#349 - 2014-05-14 13:34:46 UTC
First there was Incarnagate. Now there will be Tooltipgate.

Anyway back on topic. Walked away last night thinking maybe they would grow on me. They haven't and are still a hindrance to me.
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#350 - 2014-05-14 13:43:47 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
I will reserve judgement until I log in tonight.


Excellent idea
Lisa Gentilette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#351 - 2014-05-14 13:47:41 UTC
Ivan Taredi wrote:
First there was Incarnagate. Now there will be Tooltipgate.

Anyway back on topic. Walked away last night thinking maybe they would grow on me. They haven't and are still a hindrance to me.


Did the same just flying around opening menu's and move my cursor around.
These tip are almost everywhere now, from your overview to getting info on a ship you have docked somewhere deep away and the thing that rubs my hair the wrong way is that most tool tips tell me stuff I already know.

I desperately need a way to turn most tooltips off, specially those geared to new players.

/me is very frustrated. What?
CCP Delegate Zero
C C P
C C P Alliance
#352 - 2014-05-14 13:50:03 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Delegate Zero
We've been following all the constructive feedback on this thread, and in other places, closely and will be making some adjustments to address some of the issues that have been exposed since release.

We're intending to release a small update very soon to address the most pressing matters.

Cheers,
Delegate Zero

CCP Delegate Zero | Content Designer - Writer | @CCPDelegateZero
handbanana
State War Academy
Caldari State
#353 - 2014-05-14 13:52:45 UTC  |  Edited by: handbanana
Could we get an official non-vague answer please if this latest "improvement" is going to be optional or not?

CCP my account runs out in a little over a week. I know I am only one banana, but just letting you know there is no way I am going to keep paying you if I can't turn this off. Moreover, if you don't start testing your stuff better, I thnk you are going to lose all your bananas.

“It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.”    -Jack Handy
Arec Bardwin
#354 - 2014-05-14 13:53:58 UTC
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:
We've been following all the constructive feedback on this thread, and in other places, closely and will be making some adjustments to some of the issues that have been exposed since release.

We're intending to release a small update very soon to address the most pressing matters.

Cheers,
Delegate Zero

Is that picture from the internal design work? Big smile Good to hear much needed changes are incoming, I still think you should have used the test server to avoid much of the drama.
Muul Udonii
THORN Syndicate
Northern Coalition.
#355 - 2014-05-14 13:55:03 UTC
While you're at it can you fix the bug where sometimes the market won't let you type more than one character in the search bar?

It seems to happen after you have done one search and try to do another. Currently the solution is to click elsewhere, then back to the market, then press "End" then press "Home" then press "delete" then you can type again.

Not sure it's related to tooltips, but it seems to have happened at the same time.
Oraac Ensor
#356 - 2014-05-14 14:02:12 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Haven't logged in to check this out yet. But it looks pretty good from the devblog. Predictive mouse movement should be awesome. Tooltip to see station services is definitely awesome.

I hope that I don't get tooltip bombed though. It could be annoying to try to navigate in space and constantly have to work my way around boxes that are popping up all over the place. But I will reserve judgement until I log in tonight.

Oh my, are you in for a shock.

Tooltip to see station services? How does "Station" grab you?
Wotan1985
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#357 - 2014-05-14 14:05:50 UTC
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:
We've been following all the constructive feedback on this thread, and in other places, closely and will be making some adjustments to address some of the issues that have been exposed since release.

We're intending to release a small update very soon to address the most pressing matters.

Cheers,
Delegate Zero


Thanks for the update. The question that burns most under my nails is:

Are we getting an option where we can disable it and get the old ones back?
Ax Pym
Doomheim
#358 - 2014-05-14 14:07:26 UTC
prior, the pop-up, displayed the station 'name', now it displays 'station'. The station name was very helpful, whereas this is not helpful at all. Again, the 'look' and position of the pop-up, i like very much.

axpymlives.tumblr.com
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#359 - 2014-05-14 14:08:36 UTC
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:
constructive feedback

A+ fix, ship immediately

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Max Morton
Demonic Retribution
#360 - 2014-05-14 14:09:17 UTC
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:
We've been following all the constructive feedback on this thread, and in other places, closely and will be making some adjustments to address some of the issues that have been exposed since release.

We're intending to release a small update very soon to address the most pressing matters.

Cheers,
Delegate Zero





Don't understand why this feature was brought right onto the main sever without any feedback on the test sever first surely that's what its there for????