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Fitting the moot point

First post
Author
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#21 - 2014-05-14 10:42:20 UTC
Came expecting discussion on a new kind of warp disruptor... the "moot" point..
Yim Sei
Ontogenic Achronycal PLC
#22 - 2014-05-14 10:43:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Yim Sei
Webvan wrote:
1. EVE isn't really a fair and balanced solo pvp game, and shouldn't be.
2. Modules and SP matter less than personal player skill and with those people you fly with.
3. Needs a point three but your dreadnaught post pops to points 1 and 2 which we will just call frigates. Maybe stick to exploration?



Good reply ...but cant agree with point 2.

I would say it is unfortunate that Modules, SP AND personal player skill matter less than playing the current blob meta due to isk generation nerfs.

No-one beginning eve or playing casual either solo or in a small corp can really see the light at the end of the tunnel.

eve feels far more like a chore, or second job than a game atm.


EDIT - People play virtual worlds for escapism however New Eden society must be conformed to as in RL or you will never crawl out of the hole.

Post with my main? This is my main - I just overtrain and overplay my alts.

Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#23 - 2014-05-14 10:46:31 UTC
Again dear OP, I understand what you are talking about but - again - meta is not something that CCP forced on us, it is one of those things that emerged out of how people use tools provided by CCP. Sure, devs could buff green/blue/purple items to match their current price but you know what it would basically do? Current price * 100. So if now you feel faction invul doesn't give you enough oomph for a price imagine 20bil price tag on it after buff.

I hate being caught by a gang same as the next guy but because I tend to fly where possibility of such situation is quite high I fly cheap fits. And you know what? Sometimes I take few of those guys down before they burn me. Sometimes I just sit there waiting for explosion to warp my pod out. Well, I can't blame them for using their numbers but the point is I do not consider lack of green/blue/purple tags on my fit as something that limits my enjoyment.

If people would stop for a moment and really think about their fittings instead blindly follow path of bling they know from other games with time market would follow and shinies would become cheaper. But as long as there are people flying 20bil vargs in 1.0 systems doing L4s those items will remain their too shiny too lose status.

Invalid signature format

Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#24 - 2014-05-14 10:59:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Yim Sei wrote:
Webvan wrote:
1. EVE isn't really a fair and balanced solo pvp game, and shouldn't be.
2. Modules and SP matter less than personal player skill and with those people you fly with.
3. Needs a point three but your dreadnaught post pops to points 1 and 2 which we will just call frigates. Maybe stick to exploration?



Good reply ...but cant agree with point 2.

I would say it is unfortunate that Modules, SP AND personal player skill matter less than playing the current blob meta due to isk generation nerfs.

No-one beginning eve or playing casual either solo or in a small corp can really see the light at the end of the tunnel.

eve feels far more like a chore, or second job than a game atm.

It's less about disagreeing and more about rejecting. You just don't like what EVE offers by your opinion, yet the alternative often happens if you know where to look, or lucky enough to find. Not everything is about blob warfare, and then not to the other extreme with nothing in the middle. But it's not a console game where it's all laid out for you and you just pick up where you want or where you left off. It's in the true nature of the sandbox mmo, unpredictable and yet rewarding in it's own right when something does happen that you favor the most. You know why you keep quitting and returning: damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Oh and again about modules, no it really doesn't matter that much. I buy stacks of ships, of the same ship, I don't fill them with officer modules and I don't need to at all. Even rare to use faction in them, depends on the situation. All you need is your core skills and the skills for the ship and fit you are in. Then the people around you matter as well. There just is no win button for anyone, you use your head and fly smart.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Grunanca
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2014-05-14 11:06:21 UTC
I fly with an alliance myself, where many of our doctrines have faction fits with no choice to "only" use t2 mods. OP is right that we wouldnt go into a sure loss. However having faction fit doctrines definately makes a huge difference in the number of enemies we take as a "sure loss". Í remember an event where our 38 man fleet engaged a live event and at a point had about 150 people shooting at us. Only thing that saved us there was pimped out and carefully planned setups.

So in my opinion its all about who you fly with. I would never take a 1 bil T3 into a solo fight out of fear for getting ganked. I would however take the same T3 out in a very risky fight with my alliance, well knowing that every single pilot will do way better than most people we face. Even if it means losing my pimped ship once in a while. Fights are only really fun when you have a lot on the line.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2014-05-14 11:23:34 UTC
Its kinda like you do not take your Ferrari when visiting the poor cousins on the bad side of town really.
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2014-05-14 11:24:08 UTC
Yim Sei wrote:
What this also means is 99% of combat pilots in eve will never, ever engage unless the odds are stacked completely in their favour.



This stat is made up.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2014-05-14 11:25:49 UTC
Yim Sei wrote:


Yep good answer.

I have the balls, but whats the point flying expensive ships when all you meet are blobs, and any 'equal footing' will meen your opponent runs like the pretend pvper they are?.

As I said before happy to engage anyone even if odds are not in my favour by a certain amount - but the cost of fitted ships relative to the isk generation required means no-one wants to fight (and I believe most who will can afford to buy plex to fund combat = Eve PvP is for the RL affluent).


Last night we jumped a small scythe fleet issue gang into a vagabond/cynabal gang set up at zero on the gate waiting for us. A couple of them escaped and we had no losses.
On Sunday we fought a 4 hour fight against 120 BS /support /4 carriers using a 50 man fleet (about 25 in loki) and a friends fleet of about 40 cerbs. About 55 billion isk of ships was killed about 60% theres and 40% ours (our dread escalation ended badly).
We do high risk pvp whenever we find it and non of us are rich IRL to my knowledge.
An ad hoc donation drive for the dread losses raised 6.7 billion in 24 hrs to help replace them. (we have no real SRP).
Lots of people pvp in eve and lots aren't risk averse. I see plenty that are ofc but many aren't. If you want higher risk /more fun pvp then join a group that does it. If you want low risk blapping then plenty of groups offer that too.
Don't tar us all with your brush.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85

Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#29 - 2014-05-14 11:32:00 UTC
Yim Sei wrote:

At the moment the numerous ships modules and rigs only seem to serve the economy and not the player.

Is there any way around this? or are all our fitting options just a moot point?


I was about to say the only module that doesn't have a realistic use is Festival Launcher, but even that has conceivable purpose.

I suppose I am missing the point.

Which modules and rigs are you talking about which serve no purpose to the pilot?

Can you give me an example so I know what you mean?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#30 - 2014-05-14 11:37:42 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Yim Sei wrote:

At the moment the numerous ships modules and rigs only seem to serve the economy and not the player.

Is there any way around this? or are all our fitting options just a moot point?


I was about to say the only module that doesn't have a realistic use is Festival Launcher, but even that has conceivable purpose.

I suppose I am missing the point.

Which modules and rigs are you talking about which serve no purpose to the pilot?

Can you give me an example so I know what you mean?


Capital probing rigsBig smile
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#31 - 2014-05-14 11:46:08 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


Capital probing rigsBig smile


Lol probably

Though its conceivable that an extremely (to the point of vulgar wastage) wealthy pilot may want to put those on a brick they like to sit in while they do WH industry or something

Shrug

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Solecist Project
#32 - 2014-05-14 11:49:08 UTC
Interesting to read this and see how it doesn't apply to me at all.

TL;DR: Too many people are cowards.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#33 - 2014-05-14 11:57:52 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Yim Sei wrote:
What this also means is 99% of combat pilots in eve will never, ever engage unless the odds are stacked completely in their favour.



This stat is made up.



You think? Big smile

Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more;
Or close the wall up with our English dead!
In peace, there ’s nothing so becomes a man,
As modest stillness and humility:
But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
Then imitate the action of the tiger;
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Solecist Project
#34 - 2014-05-14 12:01:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Yim Sei wrote:
Saisin wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
So many words just to say

"I don't have balls"



I think each player's balls is simply measured by the size of their in-game wallet...
Some also cherish their kill board so much that their perspective on PvP is only viewed through the prism of the kill/ISK ratios, which leads to another form of "eunuquiness", only finding their balls within the blobs...


Yep good answer.

I have the balls, but whats the point flying expensive ships when all you meet are blobs, and any 'equal footing' will meen your opponent runs like the pretend pvper they are?.

As I said before happy to engage anyone even if odds are not in my favour by a certain amount - but the cost of fitted ships relative to the isk generation required means no-one wants to fight (and I believe most who will can afford to buy plex to fund combat = Eve PvP is for the RL affluent).
Saying that the wallets size determines the size of the balls
shows that you don't see beyond your own fears.

When the wallet determines the size, it means that the balls are small to begin with
and the wallet acts as a protection to hide this fact from others and yourself.
Lack of deeper self understanding is a huge part here.

If it matters to you what you lose and how much it costs you,
you don't deserve to have it. That's why it's locked in a cage where it can't be taken away.

The expensive ships are an extension to the balls. Losing them would expose yourself
to the fact that they are tiny, without the necessary self realization that would liberate your
mind from the cage it is in.

You have no balls at all.

If you don't believe it... go out there in something shiny, expensive and self created.

You'll see.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2014-05-14 12:03:05 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Yim Sei wrote:

At the moment the numerous ships modules and rigs only seem to serve the economy and not the player.

Is there any way around this? or are all our fitting options just a moot point?


I was about to say the only module that doesn't have a realistic use is Festival Launcher, but even that has conceivable purpose.

I suppose I am missing the point.

Which modules and rigs are you talking about which serve no purpose to the pilot?

Can you give me an example so I know what you mean?


Capital probing rigsBig smile

I know this is against the rules but https://zkillboard.com/kill/36207486/

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#36 - 2014-05-14 12:07:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Aralyn Cormallen
baltec1 wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Yim Sei wrote:

At the moment the numerous ships modules and rigs only seem to serve the economy and not the player.

Is there any way around this? or are all our fitting options just a moot point?


I was about to say the only module that doesn't have a realistic use is Festival Launcher, but even that has conceivable purpose.

I suppose I am missing the point.

Which modules and rigs are you talking about which serve no purpose to the pilot?

Can you give me an example so I know what you mean?


Capital probing rigsBig smile


I thought that was the only viable Pheonix fit What?

EDIT: Dammit James!
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#37 - 2014-05-14 12:09:37 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

I know this is against the rules but *snipped*


Wait... whut

I dont

why..?

what

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#38 - 2014-05-14 12:14:55 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

I know this is against the rules but *snipped*


Wait... whut

I dont

why..?

what


Surprisingly not the worst fit out thereStraight
Audrey UntzUntz
Doomheim
#39 - 2014-05-14 12:14:55 UTC
There are no fair fights in EVE, so I see OP's point.

It would be nice to have some sort of dueling system where people cannot interfere. Like as if CONCORD can't set up a "dueling arena" ; a massive, massive dome that only the two duelers can enter.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#40 - 2014-05-14 12:17:24 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

I know this is against the rules but *snipped*


Wait... whut

I dont

why..?

what


Surprisingly not the worst fit out thereStraight


Yeah, some fit Capital Cruise Launchers Shocked